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StormyKnight View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 February 2014 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Hey Mods, if I didn't get specifically descriptive, would it be ok to give a general idea what the bullets did after they hit the above mentioned criminal?


Call it professional curiosity- but go ahead.
 
Well, this guy that had abducted his son at knifepoint (we're talking large kitchen knife) let his son go and started lunging at the officers (about 6 of them I think).  They hit him with Freeze +P and it didn't faze him.  So, they didn't know if this guy was on something if the pepper spray didn't affect him.  One officer took a shot and missed.  He then charged at my buddy with the knife.  He backed away and gave loud verbal orders to stop and drop the knife as he backpedaled.  He had his weapon drawn the entire time and found himself cornered in a manner of seconds.  He knew he had to shoot when the guy came within 15' of him and showed no sign of stopping.  At about the 10' mark he fired 3 shots.
 
There were two entry wounds about an inch or less apart center chest on each side of the sternum.  The autopsy showed that those rounds squirreled around inside pretty good.  Both lungs, heart, liver, kidney and bowel.  One round was just below the surface of the skin of his lower back.  Very close to exiting.  Apparantly his chest cavity filled with so much blood that it made chest compressions nearly impossible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 10:26pm
Hornady critical defense in .38spl for the over-penetration issue. Inside the house it's turkey loads or #4 buck. 115grn. in the .38 seems light since I've always had best luck with 158grn SWC accuracy-wise, but these things shoot well and seemed to expand well in my water-jug expansion tests.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 9:22pm
We carry winchester hollowpoints at work. I keep the same in my offduty/BUG. Though I do keep two mags and a box of FMJs in my bag, just in case. Though, if it comes to something that would make me want to switch to that, I'm probably pulling out one of the bigger toys or holding the perimeter for SRT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 9:20pm
I'll be a fifth to endorse Hydra Shoks. My dad was an avid shooter and those were his personal defense rounds of choice so I guess I just followed suite.

I don't carry much anymore, but my two carry guns of choose are a Glock G36 and my Springfield Champion. Both .45 in Hydras.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

I don't carry HP for stopping power.  I carry them to limit over-penetration.  


This.

When my buddy had to shoot a guy in the line of duty, the Department (and may still, not sure) issued 9mm Sig Sauer 226 pistols using Federal Hydra-shok ammo. Hey Mods, if I didn't get specifically descriptive, would it be ok to give a general idea what the bullets did after they hit the above mentioned criminal?


Call it professional curiosity- but go ahead.


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StormyKnight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

I don't carry HP for stopping power. †I carry them to limit over-penetration. †


This.

When my buddy had to shoot a guy in the line of duty, the Department (and may still, not sure) issued 9mm Sig Sauer 226 pistols using Federal Hydra-shok ammo. Hey Mods, if I didn't get specifically descriptive, would it be ok to give a general idea what the bullets did after they hit the above mentioned criminal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:


The "cuts like a buzzsaw" claim is also BS.


Agreed. I don't think the bullet would be spinning that fast by the time it hit the target, much less sit there spinning and cutting through and then proceeding on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 1:31pm
I don't carry HP for stopping power.  I carry them to limit over-penetration.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 1:23pm
Federal HST at work, and Winchester Ranger when I'm off the clock. I prefer a hollow point over a full metal jacket, but, as stated, shot placement is more important than ammo selection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceesman762 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

If you are down to using a pistol, you have been doing something wrong for the last 800m. I use FMJ's in my M1911 and M9, keep it simple, and aim smart, center chest with follow up headshot, wound pattern not really an issue.

Shot placement. Period.
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I donít have one either. Is that good???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 12:00pm
I have Hyrdashock in both .45 for my 1911 and in 9 for my LC9.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 10:58am
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

If you are down to using a pistol, you have been doing something wrong for the last 800m.


...in some lines of work, 8 feet is about all we get when the SHTF, forget 800m. Big smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

...Hydrashocks in my M&P 40 


This.

I'm doing the same. I'm in the process of saving my shiny pennies for a M&P Shield, since its much easier to carry then the full frame is, but as far as ammo goes, I love the Hydrashocks.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 10:47am
If you are down to using a pistol, you have been doing something wrong for the last 800m. I use FMJ's in my M1911 and M9, keep it simple, and aim smart, center chest with follow up headshot, wound pattern not really an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 10:41am
Hornady Critical Defense or Critical Duty.

We don't have much choice here, supply is limited.

The thing is pistol rounds are pathetic. None of them have enough energy. You can't cheat physics. A fragmenting round works quite well in a rifle because of the energy in the hits. The temporary wound channel gets torn up by the fragments and gets turned into a permanent wound. The pistols simply don't have the energy to use this.

The petals peel off in the first 5 inches, which isn't deep enough to do real damage. They make minute puncture wounds which won't incapacitate anyone. The whole round weighs in at 95 grains and then splits into 9 pieces? Retained bullet weight is the king to pistol "power".

Thinking outside the box is good. Not know where the box is, or what it is for is bad.

The "cuts like a buzzsaw" claim is also BS.

Get a quality HP from guys like Winchester, Hornady, Speer or a couple of other manufacturers and you're golden. If you are FORCED to use non HP-ammo, you can look into some brands like the CorBon Pow'R ball, Magsafe Q or Hornady HS2.

If you MUST have copper HVHP ammo, get Corbon DPX.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 8:29am
A few years ago, we used Golden Sabers at work. As far as I can tell, those have been rotated out in favor of what looks like Winchester Ranger SXTs. I'll have to ask the arsenal guys for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2014 at 12:43am
I carry Speer Gold Dots or Hydrashocks in my M&P 40 and Speers in my 1911. At work it's 9mm ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2014 at 10:33pm
My latest theory is that plain ball ammo is the way to go. Fmj.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2014 at 9:04pm
I live in MD, so yeah, no EDC here. However, I do keep progressive loads in my PA-63. 7 round mag is loaded with: 4 JHPs follwed up with 2 FMJs and one surplus steel-core AP-FMJ

Second mag is all FMJ. I figure if the first four don't penetrate (heavy clothing/whatever) the last three will. If I have to dump more than one mag, then I'm in a gun battle and FMJs are going to do what I need them to do.

It's a holdover from my old 1911 days when I loaded two mags progressively with 2 Glaser Safety rounds followed by 2 JHP+P rounds and then 3 FMJ+P rounds. Glasers can be defeated by several layers (or winter coats in some instances) so there was a need to escalate penetrating power after the first two shots in each mag.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2014 at 7:02pm
The RIP ammo is really just another marketing gimmick/fad. Your round is intentionally losing its mass, so you'll just end up for several shallow wound channels instead of the normal traumatic injury. Not to mention if you have to shoot through any kind of barrier/glass/etc.

The two things I'd be interested to see are A) what kind of damage it would do to a feed ramp and B) if the odd shape of the round in general would affect the barrel rifling's ability to grab the round or if it would do damage there too.
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