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Shots fired in DC - Discuss.

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    Posted: 03 October 2013 at 4:14pm
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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2013 at 4:31pm
What a strange story. Lady tries to ram two barricades and is shot dead by cops. Also, she had a child with her.

Suicide by cop?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2013 at 4:42pm
I'd say. You would probably need something a little bit bigger than a sedan to plow through the gates of the White House...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2013 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

I'd say. You would probably need something a little bit bigger than a sedan to plow through the gates of the White House...


Yeah, based on what I've seen so far definitely seems like suicide / gone crazy situation.

Sucks though, I hope all the cops are okay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 8:04am
She has a history of postpartum depression. Her boyfriend called mental health services on her back in December.

I'm really seeing a recurring theme in our system of mental health care in this nation. People are being prescribed a bullet to the head way too often.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 8:37am
Something doesn't add up in this story... 

Look at the car. If she "plowed through" two barriers, why is there almost no damage to the front of her car?




This story is strange...

I wonder if she found out her healthcare costs went from $80 a month to $550 and lost it?...



Did you see the cop car that was destroyed? How did that happen?... And shooting at a unarmed lady in a car with a toddler inside... That is never going to go well for the police... It  was strange how fast they labeled her as "crazy" too. I don't know... it is just a really strange story.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 9:25am
The car never actually hit any of the barriers with force. You can see it in the videos that are available from tourists around DC online. She hit multiple vehicles with the rear of her car though. The police car with the injured officer was at one point said to have been involved in an accident of its own accord and not struck by her vehicle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 10:19am
from US News:

Quote A Capitol police officer was hurt as he was speeding to confront her and hit a barrier that popped up in the street. The two injured officers were exempt from the government shutdown and required to work but were not being paid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 10:28am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:





Did you see the cop car that was destroyed? How did that happen?... And shooting at a unarmed lady in a car with a toddler inside... That is never going to go well for the police... It  was strange how fast they labeled her as "crazy" too. I don't know... it is just a really strange story.

A) Have you seen anything that indicates they knew there was a child on board while she was slamming into cars with her vehicle?

B) I imagine the "crazy" label is coming from confirmed past mental illness situations in her life. That, and a sane person doesn't do that kind of thing with a child in the car....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 10:44am
I'm not saying I know anything about it, it just is a strange story. I read that they thought she was mentally ill minutes after it happened. I though it was strange that they would know that in minutes after it went down... As usually with the hippa laws you would think it would take a while to make that assessment. Course she was trying to run over barricades... so there's that...



Barricades just pop up in DC? Man, that would stink... Driving along, and all of a sudden huge barricade jumps up in front of you without warning... Seems like that could be dangerous, you know an officer could end up running into one you just popped up if he was chasing someone.


Oh wait. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 11:38am
Yeah, they're countermeasures to prevent vehicles from ramming through security checkpoints at high rates of speed. Guess the officers kinda forgot which streets they were on.

I didn't hear any reports of her mental health issues until late last night after her name had been released. The primary reports cited her boyfriend (father of her child) as the source of the mental health issues. He called mental health services on her back in December because of the things she was allegedly saying and he thought she might be a danger to their recently born child.

She apparently believed that BHO was "stalking" her and that he had her town "locked down" so she couldn't escape. Her former boss said that he had to let her go because patients were complaining that she was being too harsh with them while performing her dental hygienist's duties.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

It was strange how fast they labeled her as "crazy" too. I don't know... it is just a really strange story.


Yeah, I think the crazy label was perfectly appropriate.

I do wish that there were more "nonlethal" ways of stopping a car at those barricades. Also, they seem rather ineffective if a soccer mom in an Infinity can cause that much ruckus.

FE-I'm going to have to start a healthcare thread now that you're back to posting ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 4:38pm
ha...

You sure you want to go there? Everything I predicted has come true. One of my co-workers brought her own insurance when we hired her. She was paying $450 a month, and she was just informed that her plan expires at the end of the year and won't be offered anymore because of Obamacare....


So she just checked out what her new Obamacare approved plan would cost... She is freaking out since it is $1,100 a MONTH. Just for INSURANCE, that doesn't include the actual costs of the visits/medicine and everything else. 

People are getting ready to FREAK out when they realize how much they will have to pay under Obamacare. 


If you saw my post on facebook, then you saw about "Chad" who is being promoted as a success story of Obamacare by so many in the press... Too bad he didn't actually sign up, and the numbers that they were reporting were completely wrong. 

His plan prior to Obamacare was $40. The papers are all reporting (and the white house as well) that he signed up for a $175 plan under Obamacare. 

Turns out, he didn't actually sign up, and the REAL cost for him is $225.09...

Yeah, we now pay $225.09 when we used to pay $40. 

Sounds affordable to me!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 5:26pm
I'm with FE on this. (not Obamacare) It seems weird that the police couldn't identify that there was a child n the vehicle before opening fire. I would consider the fact they didn't know who was in the car as reason enough not to shoot. Also property damage and failure to stop can't justify shooting somebody. You never know they have mental health issues.

And really what was the probable worst case scenario here? I doubt she really got anywhere near the buildings/politicians and it seemed like the public were in general well out of the way. So if it was a car filled with sem-tex it was reasonably well contained. Not that the police look to have really believed this was likely seeing how closely they were following in the videos I saw.

I would think the mentally ill tag came about pretty organically after this nutter started zooming about Capital Hill. I know as soon as me and my friends heard about this and found out it was a woman. We were pretty quick to start making jokes about the fact she was probably on her period and just trying to park. (this was before we heard of any shooting)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 6:24pm
I'm probably the last one to side with cops on most issues, but the video when they initially fire. After she nearly hits the cops

Yeah, a vehicle is a weapon  and if you are willing to do anything to flee the scene include nearly killing me. I would also pump that car full of lead. It's also pretty damn hard to see a car seat in a car when you are in a high speed chase.

The crazy label can be applied to most crimes.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2013 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

You sure you want to go there?.


Actually, probably not because I'm sure we'd all agree. No fun in that.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2013 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by scotchyscotch scotchyscotch wrote:

I'm with FE on this. (not Obamacare) It seems weird that the police couldn't identify that there was a child n the vehicle before opening fire. I would consider the fact they didn't know who was in the car as reason enough not to shoot. Also property damage and failure to stop can't justify shooting somebody. You never know they have mental health issues.

Two things though.

1) It's just about impossible to tell if there's a car seat in a vehicle while it's driving around unless you are level with it, and,

2) Children being involved doesn't do much to stop hardened criminals or crazies.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2013 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:


Yeah, a vehicle is a weapon  and if you are willing to do anything to flee the scene include nearly killing me. I would also pump that car full of lead. It's also pretty damn hard to see a car seat in a car when you are in a high speed chase.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NANomaD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2013 at 10:31pm
Ill add my two cents "She Missed"....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2013 at 11:25pm
I guess I just think in this case, shooting should not have been the default position. 

It would have been easier for the reaction force cops to try and contain the situation, stay out of harms way and allow property damage until she was burned out then grab her. 

I do understand the seriousness of ramming officers and the inherent dangers/lethality thereof and please don't think I am claiming to have witnessed the event and know the exact circumstances. However I would think shooting a person should only be a last ditch effort. ie you can't chase someone down the road and shoot them because they nearly killed you with their car earlier. If a car is coming at you then you get out the way, if it's too late or you otherwise can't get out the way then I can accept putting a couple into the car. I just don't think it was really necessary from the limited info I have.This is just my gut feeling. 

Originally posted by USAF USAF wrote:

Two things though.

1) It's just about impossible to tell if there's a car seat in a vehicle while it's driving around unless you are level with it, and, This is definitely a fair point, but I still think that the fact nobody saw the seat /child can indicate the reaction was rushed, circumstantially at least

2) Children being involved doesn't do much to stop hardened criminals or crazies.
Correct again, but I would hope it would have a bearing on any law enforcement response.


 
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