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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 February 2013 at 4:45pm
The Nebraska Department of Agriculture is has been using drones to manage water usage and crop lines for about a year. Hearing a 'buzzing' sound and the dogs going nuts, I looked out and saw a 'drone', a large r/c aircraft low flying my property line and well head areas. With Bino's saw Saunders County Sheriffs Department and reg # on the main wing and a large 'camera' package underneath. Options?

Figure 2 .22's mounted on a flexable homemade 'anti-aircraft' mount, a quick roll out, outside of camera, a good 'burst' and feign ignorance when the Sheriff Depart comes out to recover the wreckage. Or pumpin out 5 rounds of 'OO' buck, 45 pellets same effect.

Know I can't legally shoot em down, but this is not a really 'good' idea and 'Big Brother' is just getting bigger.

I see the golf caddie arguement, A solution to golf caddie pay increase demands is The Golf Cart, now is the solution to Police/Sherrif Officers pay increase demands in these more rural areas 'drones'.....serious, think about it.

Edited by oldsoldier - 12 February 2013 at 4:46pm
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usafpilot07 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2013 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

The Nebraska Department of Agriculture is has been using drones to manage water usage and crop lines for about a year. Hearing a 'buzzing' sound and the dogs going nuts, I looked out and saw a 'drone', a large r/c aircraft low flying my property line and well head areas. With Bino's saw Saunders County Sheriffs Department and reg # on the main wing and a large 'camera' package underneath. Options?

None. However, drone use is still working it's way through the courts. However, anything visible by the naked eye from an airplane is considered plain-view.(ie; pot fields, etc.)

Figure 2 .22's mounted on a flexable homemade 'anti-aircraft' mount, a quick roll out, outside of camera, a good 'burst' and feign ignorance when the Sheriff Depart comes out to recover the wreckage. Or pumpin out 5 rounds of 'OO' buck, 45 pellets same effect.

Know I can't legally shoot em down, but this is not a really 'good' idea and 'Big Brother' is just getting bigger.

Doubtful this has anything to do with a "Big Brother-esque" government. Thermal imaging and telescopic tools need warrants to be used in an investigation, which applies to video recording equipment as well. 

I see the golf caddie arguement, A solution to golf caddie pay increase demands is The Golf Cart, now is the solution to Police/Sherrif Officers pay increase demands in these more rural areas 'drones'.....serious, think about it.

Not until the USSC changes their minds about electronic aids to plain view doctrines. 


It's worth noting that Congress thinks it IS okay to use drones for random surveillance. The Federal Aviation Administration Air Transportation Modernization and Safety Improvement Act allows it, but I don't see it standing up to USSC review.


Edited by usafpilot07 - 12 February 2013 at 4:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2013 at 5:17pm
There goes my illicit fishing career. It's bad enough when the NG parks a Blackhawk over your rowboat. Anybody think a space blanket would confuse thermal? I'm thinking of making a lined ghillie-poncho.
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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2013 at 5:43pm
So usafpilot what is the 'probable cause' and without warrent fly over my property, with an obvious camera equiped drone of law enforcement.
Is any if any 'evidense' aquired admisable in court? Or in a property line or water usage hearing.

If it was a NE Dept of Ag drone not so worried, but a Sherrifs Dept drone, what were they looking for? Where was the warrent for this 'search' which it obviously was due to the flight patterns of tracing the lines, and figure 8's.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2013 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

So usafpilot what is the 'probable cause' and without warrent fly over my property, with an obvious camera equiped drone of law enforcement.
Is any if any 'evidense' aquired admisable in court? Or in a property line or water usage hearing.

I have to separate this into two parts.

1) They do NOT need probable cause to fly over your property and look from a plane. Anything in plain view from outside your curtilage, whether on the ground or in the air, is admissible.  While flying, they would not be allowed to use telescopic or thermal imaging devices without a search warrant. I don't believe this applies to video cameras/not zoomed photographs. 

 2) As far as it being a drone and not a manned aircraft, I don't know Nebraska's specific laws, but my understanding of the recent bill and past supreme court rulings is this: the drone is okay to be used for plain-view searches as long as it does not have telescopic/thermal/etc. aiding in its search.

If it was a NE Dept of Ag drone not so worried, but a Sherrifs Dept drone, what were they looking for? Where was the warrent for this 'search' which it obviously was due to the flight patterns of tracing the lines, and figure 8's.

Could be routine checks for marijuana, etc. No need for a warrant as explained above.


One of the guys with more experience than me may be able to answer the drone question better than me, but I know my stuff is at least pretty up to date because we are still doing constitutional stuff every day in academy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2013 at 6:41pm
The key to this is "reasonable expectation of privacy".  You can't reasonably expect things out in the open to remain private because anyone can see it.  This still applies even if they have to fly over your property to see it, as long as they remain in airspace that is open to the general public.  If they were doing a search of your curtilage, it gets more complicated and you would have to argue that the area they were searching was in fact curtilage.  If they had flown the drone through your barn or into your living room, that could be a different story.  Chances are though, that what they were doing was completely legal and any evidence found and seized would be admissible in court.   As it is, just be glad they are doing it the cheap way with a drone instead of spending your taxes on a real plane and pilot.  

For a more detailed answer and a few similar cases, read pages 7 and 8 of this congressional research report.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R42701.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2013 at 7:43pm
This has pretty much been summed up already, but I will touch on it.
An open field has no expectation of privacy (Hester v. US). The sheriff could basically walk around the same patch of land and it would not be considered a search (trespass is a separate issue). They can also use Thermal imaging as long as they don't use it to obtain evidence from an area protected by the fourth amendment (They can not use the thermal imaging to find heat sources inside your house or enclosed barn).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2013 at 8:48pm
My thoughts on drones is pretty universal-if a cop could do it, I'm okay with a drone doing it.
 
As others have said, the only place a drone can't legally (or physically) investigate would be the interiors of your buildings.
 
If you shoot it post pics though, I'd cheer you on regardless of legality. Always wanted to do that myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 2:43pm
Goose gun with plated shot, those buckshot pellets or .22 rounds have to land somewhere. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 3:18pm
Get your own drone, with a faster engine and go all Robowars on it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 3:24pm
Actually thinking of getting a parkflyer large R/C aircraft and messin with the drones if they show up again. Imagine the Sherrif deputy on the monitor watching a "Spitfire" close on the camera. Put the 'dogfight' laser 'blinkers' on the wings for that shooting at him effect. If they can 'fly' over my property, I can mess with them.

http://www.hobbytown.com/Shop/-Spitfire-MK-IX-PNP/

Or havving 'The Red Baron' stalking them.

http://www.hobbytown.com/Shop/-ElectriFly-Fokker-Dr-1-WW1-Park-Flyer-EP-ARF/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 6:54pm
Just disrupt its signal, and go loot it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 8:17pm
Even though it's a terrible idea, skeet shooting the thing would be such a fun thing to do.

I do agree though, chase the thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bravo2ZERO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 10:18pm
About once a year I come on this forum and discover that absolutely nothing has changed, except the kids that were 12 when I joined are all trying to be cops or joining the army...

The military has no idea how powerful a recruiting tool paintball was 10 years ago ;)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bravo2ZERO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 10:18pm
Btw, shooting it down would be pretty cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2013 at 12:00am
Would shooting it down be legal?

I'm sure some of us have property large enough to accommodate birdshot, it's range is what, 300m?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2013 at 2:21am
Nearest neighbor over a mile away, and only on a small arc to the west. Rest of the compass I have miles, so bird or buck is good, .22's maybe not.

Doubt it's legal to shoot em down, but if I am flying my r/c airplane and there is an accidental air to air collision, jeeze officer didn't see it till it was too late. Or get one of those really big r/c transmitters with frequency scan for bind and fly, and see if that somehow 'interferes' with the drones electronics. Or get a big r/c warbird and do figure 8's over the Sherriff's Department building in Wahoo.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/f_86_sabre_jolley_roger_epo_jet_arf_1034360_prd1.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2013 at 1:32pm
But if you've got so much space, get a clay thrower and a 12 guage. Same story. Sorry Ossifer, I was skeet shooting and didn't see the drone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2013 at 6:43pm
fireworks sound more challenging/fun
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