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An inconvenient truth....

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scotchyscotch View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 February 2013 at 7:19pm
Yeah I see your point Strato. You make it much better than I do.

It seems as though the biggest tools we have to open a sensible factual dialogue are being used to counteract this very thing. Newspapers/media are polarizing views that people didn't have to start with. This then gets the people who think "Well that doesn't make sense. I wouldn't draw that conclusion at all" Think that the papers/news represent everyone on the other side of the arguments actual opinions and the cycle goes on.

"SCIENTISTS LIE POLAR BEARS WHITER THAN POPULAR OWN BRAND BEARS GLOBAL WARMING DISPROVED" 

"HIPPY THINKS FLOWERS ARE ANSWER. INSANE MAN DOES NOT BELIEVE IN MONEY ENVIROMENTALISTS RALLY SUPPORT AS 4 PEOPLE SING A SONG ABOUT TREES"

"CRAZY PEOPLE AND CHINA POLLUTING ON MASSIVE SCALE, FLOWERS ONLY HOPE"

I think I've lost my train of thought now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2013 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by scotchyscotch scotchyscotch wrote:

Global warming aside cutting coal/oil/gas consumption can only be a good thing in the long run.
 
For sure, that's where the right annoys on this issue as well. They act as if ANY progress is appeasing some kind of left wing energy conspiracy. Cutting polution is a great thing, as is looking for alternative energy sources, and you can't wait on the market to do it because oil and gas are mucho profitable right now. That's like saying you're going to wait on Apple to jump ship and start making water filters instead of iPods.
 
I do believe the government should be actively funding and pursuing alternate sources of energy as well as enforcing (within economic reason) tighter pollution laws. I've always believed the only place the government should step in with the free market is to protect the safety and well being of the people and I certainly think they have the jurisdiction here.
 
However....
 
Originally posted by scotchyscotch scotchyscotch wrote:

  I think at least getting the discussion going is doing good things
 
I think the trouble with this is that the discussion is what's doing all of the harm. It's venomous and loaded with rhetoric on BOTH sides and it's created a bitter, sarcastic tone on the parts of both parties.
 
As I said earlier, this definitely falls under the government's jurisdiction. We've been bombarded with information on saving the environment for three decades now, from children's PSA's to school recycling and environmental drives, but they've only been so effective. It's like drugs, or smoking. Public information only does so much to stem the tide.
 
The people and the businesses will do what profits them the most and they'll do just little enough to make them feel good. The government needs to actively be working on the science behind it all.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2013 at 5:15pm
Global warming aside cutting coal/oil/gas consumption can only be a good thing in the long run. I think at least getting the discussion going is doing good things. A lot of headway is being made in alternative energy but it does require investment. Without making a strong case for it then it's not going to happen. 

Scotland has went a bit renewables daft. Big 'Lec Salmond is wanting all school children to wear those beanies with the propellers on them so he can wire the into the national grid along with covering the coast in wind and wave technology. I do see where he's coming from but the cost to both the intrinsic beauty of the country along with the infrastructure costs are going to be pretty high and the technology is relatively unproven so there will be a big risk of a massive backfire.

I don't think just because we haven't pinned down ONE reason that is causing the planets climate problems is good enough to stick you're fingers in your ears and say it's not happening. The mechanics of it are just too vast to really have a good grasp of it over a limited period of study as as far as I recall the global warming/climate change is a relatively new area. Just because there isn't a definitive answer from the climate change scientists doesn't mean there isn't a problem, The symptoms are there and we would be total dicks not to have a good look at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2013 at 3:10am
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

I hate how ridiculously difficult it seems to be to just be factual about these things. This was posted yesterday


When you have conflicting reports, and everyone lines up on one side or the other, then yes, it's hard to be factual.

Is the polar ice disappearing? You betcha! Is it going to lead to the demise of polar bears? Well, the research is saying "Nope!" because they can adapt and survive.


Exactly. Nothing is black and white, and if you think so you don't understand the problem. There's so many ways to interpret what this means that being objectively factual is just impossible. It also allows both sides to make differing statements/ predictions while still both being technically true.
 
That's the real problem with this discussion, in my opinion.
 
I've heard (for what it's worth) that there's not a terribly large amount of argument among scientists over global warming information. I think the breakdown comes in with the political and entertainment representations of it. 
From a political angle, both sides of this argument are almost disgusting to listen to. Republicans put their fingers in their ears hum or just flat out laugh at you when you talk to them about it, and Democrats act as if cutting dependence on coal and fossil fuels is just like flipping a switch. So we lose a few trillion in the economy, money's evil amirite?

I've really tried to separate the science from the politics when talking about global warming, but really what that means is that I don't talk about it anymore. You simply can't accomplish change or progress without tying the science to the politics and until you can do that it's a lost cause. It's a headache inducing topic for sure.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2013 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

I hate how ridiculously difficult it seems to be to just be factual about these things. This was posted yesterday


When you have conflicting reports, and everyone lines up on one side or the other, then yes, it's hard to be factual.

Is the polar ice disappearing? You betcha! Is it going to lead to the demise of polar bears? Well, the research is saying "Nope!" because they can adapt and survive.


Exactly. Nothing is black and white, and if you think so you don't understand the problem. There's so many ways to interpret what this means that being objectively factual is just impossible. It also allows both sides to make differing statements/ predictions while still both being technically true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2013 at 9:36am
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

I hate how ridiculously difficult it seems to be to just be factual about these things. This was posted yesterday


When you have conflicting reports, and everyone lines up on one side or the other, then yes, it's hard to be factual.

Is the polar ice disappearing? You betcha! Is it going to lead to the demise of polar bears? Well, the research is saying "Nope!" because they can adapt and survive.
<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2013 at 8:54pm
I hate how ridiculously difficult it seems to be to just be factual about these things. This was posted yesterday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2013 at 2:54pm
Damn polar bars are making the penguins look bad.

I seriously don't understand how Al Gore is respected for his global warming views any more. He's the Fox News of activists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2013 at 1:21pm
How much of Al Jazeerah's money comes from evil oil?
Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceesman762 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2013 at 5:55pm
Gore can't hear you on the account the money Al Jazeerah paid makes too much noise as he counts it.
Innocence proves nothing
FUAC!!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2013 at 3:30pm
... for Al Gore is that despite his doom and gloom predictions of extinct polar bears due to global warming, they're thriving and at a 40 year record high population.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/04/more-polar-bears-alive-today-than-40-years-ago/

Pretty interesting read, especially since it's a guy who set out to prove something he thought was true, only to turn around and find out the conventional wisdom was wrong. What's even more amazing in this day and age is that he admitted it!
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