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BARREL BREAK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 1:46am
So, KBK, going back a bit, you have no problem with people having fully functional nuclear arms? They are just tools, after all.
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agentwhale007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 1:46am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

That right there is the main problem with the shooting community. It is such a wide and encompassing field that there is literally people from every walk in life in it.

. . .

Anti gunners seem to be a more or less homogenous group and this makes it easy for them to band together.
 

Yeah this is kind of a classical cognitive bias that is pretty widely recognized. 

Quote There is a lot of "I don't need it, so why should you" going on.
 

Not from me, I don't believe. 

Quote I stand by my argument that legislating against the legal use of a tool is the incorret method in dealing with the killings.
 

I concur, in dealing specifically with the massacre in Connecticut. Nothing short of an all out ban and total confiscation (Which is not only unconstitutional but also near impossible) could do that. 

However, base-level "legislating against the legal use of a tool," specifically in the U.S., has been going on for quite some time now (Since we've been a country, at least) and has a set level of legal precedent. Even the decision and majority opinion in Heller v. DC noted that the 2nd Amendment is as open to sculpted limitation as any other amendment, as long as the ingrained purpose of allowing for defense is upheld. 

Quote Totally random "qualities" that have been decided make a weapon more dangerous are questionable at best. I'll grant that a semi automatic action does make a firearm a little more "killy" as does an easily replaceable box magazine, none of which are truthfully needed to be dangerous.

We do have statistics, however, that point to handguns being the main tool of firearm-based homicide. It's why I'm a proponent of handgun licensing. 

I concur with you, however: Arbitrary things often contained in AR bans are often based in nothing more than random guesswork. 



Edited by agentwhale007 - 23 December 2012 at 1:51am
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 1:47am
I feel like I've got a thread full of people arguing against something I'm not arguing for. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 1:57am
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

So, KBK, going back a bit, you have no problem with people having fully functional nuclear arms? They are just tools, after all.
 

I guess both ideological extremes in the gun control debate are fans of absurd hyperbole for the sake of. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 1:58am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

So, KBK, going back a bit, you have no problem with people having fully functional nuclear arms? They are just tools, after all.
 

I guess both ideological extremes in the gun control debate are fans of absurd hyperbole for the sake of. 
That's what's known in some circles as a joke. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 7:38am
Nuclear weapons? Probably not. Mostly because I don't think the average citizen has the correct security for true WMD's.

I don't think there should be much law covering Diesel and Fertilizer though.

I routinely use explosives in my hobbies. Mostly black powder I will grant you, but it is still an explosive.

The people trying to get hold of a nuke will be slightly better equipped and slightly better motivated than someone possibly breaking in to your house to steal a firearm.

AgentWhale007, going by numbers fully automatic machineguns should be totally de-regulated then. The number of true automatic weapons used in crimes in the states is sitting at something below 0.3% IIRC, and that number was from before the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act. Even back in the 80's when Miami was "machinegun Mecca" they only recovered two automatic weapons in years of police work.

I wasn't specifically replying to you, I was just saying that I've even heard people say they don't care what happens to X gun so long as they get to keep Y gun.

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 23 December 2012 at 7:40am
Pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo. H = 2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 7:42am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:



Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

That right there is the main problem with the shooting community. It is such a wide and encompassing field that there is literally people from every walk in life in it.

. . .

Anti gunners seem to be a more or less homogenous group and this makes it easy for them to band together.
 



You may be right, but I did say it SEEMS more like it, not that it IS like that. However I have heard various anti groups applauding the efforts of other groups even though they have not achieved the main aim of the first group. One step and all that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2012 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:



AgentWhale007, going by numbers fully automatic machineguns should be totally de-regulated then.
 

Fully automatic weapons are kind of a good example here -- when their danger in society was noted, legal roadblocks were put up to make it difficult to obtain said weapons, even though they were still obtainable. In turn, the use of automatic weapons in crime is really, really low. 

Everything I support is based, generally, on that concept, just with a much lower legal roadblock due to the nature and presence of handguns in society. Let the roadblock match the item -- which, for rifles and shotguns, would be little to none. 

Quote The number of true automatic weapons used in crimes in the states is sitting at something below 0.3% IIRC
 

Mostly due to lack of availability because of the lack of an overwhelming volume, prohibitive pricing, all due to proper legislation. 

Quote Even back in the 80's when Miami was "machinegun Mecca" they only recovered two automatic weapons in years of police work.
 

I've never heard of Miami called that, and Google searches of the term only yield posts on anti-gun-law websites. 

"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2012 at 2:25pm
Was the NFA enacted to protect the public, or allow the prohibition agents to keep their jobs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2012 at 3:23pm
Kind of related, this made me chuckle-


http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2012/12/23/david-gregory-violates-dc-gun-law-on-national-tv/

Also....

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/gregory-mocks-lapierre-proposing-armed-guards-sends-kids-high-security-school_691057.html

Edited by stratoaxe - 24 December 2012 at 3:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 2:51am
CA Senator Diane Feinstein has released a summary of her new 'Assault Weapon' Ban to be introduced in January:

Summary of 2013 Feinstein Assault Weapons Legislation

Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
-- 120 specifically-named firearms
-- Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one military characteristic
-- Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds

Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
-- Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test
-- Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test
-- Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans

Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
-- Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment
-- Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes and
-- Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
-- Background check of owner and any transferee;
-- Type and serial number of the firearm;
-- Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
-- Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
-- Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/files/serve/?File_id=10993387-5d4d-4680-a872-ac8ca4359119
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 4:08am
http://www.policymic.com/articles/21525/dianne-feinstein-assault-weapons-ban-is-political-suicide-for-democrats
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 8:57am
i had a fun conversation with someone very anti gun about registering "assault weapons" as NFA items. they thought it was a good idea to treat them the same as machine guns... until i explained how if i have to spend the money and take the time to register as NFA i would not register them as "assault rifles" but one of the scarier already restricted classifications such as "short barreled rifle" or "Any other weapon" which would cover the current configuration but let me turn it into a much different class of firearm :D. given the fact i would already be doing all the work adding an extra form to build a silencer would be a must...
saving the world, one warship at a time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 9:35am
http://www.salon.com/2012/12/26/british_create_a_petition_to_keep_piers_morgan_in_u_s/

"A petition calling to deport pro-gun-control CNN host Piers Morgan back to England has easily surpassed the 25,000 signatures that requires a response from the White House."

"A new petition called “Keep Piers Morgan in the USA” has emerged:

We want to keep Piers Morgan in the USA.

There are two very good reasons for this. Firstly, the first amendment.

Second and the more important point. No one in the UK wants him back."


Well played, UK.  Well played.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 3:01pm
Saw a screen shot of Jeremy Clarksons twitter, saying it took them 40 years to get rid of Morgan, and they don't want him back.

I rather have that rambling idiot support anti-gun, than a well educated American arguing for stricter gun control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 3:15pm
Clarkson is also a racist and a blithering idiot, despite making one of my favorite TV shows, sooooo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Clarkson is also a racist and a blithering idiot, despite making one of my favorite TV shows, sooooo.


Difference between Clarkson and Morgan. Is Clarkson talks about cars, Morgan talks about subjects he has no knowledge on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 December 2012 at 4:46pm
I think Clarkson is satirical, not really racist.
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