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agentwhale007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

 
As for gun laws... why do you (whale) keep mentioning waiting periods?

I don't. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

 Waiting periods are all but useless once someone already owns a gun

The one benefit that I can see in waiting periods after the initial purchase of the first firearm have is the prevention of people buying handguns and feeding them under-table into the illegal world at a quicker rate. But that same thing could be accomplished by a cap on the number someone buys in a given timeframe and increased licensing enforcement, which I support. 

Otherwise I agree with you -- waiting periods after the purchase of your first firearm are kinda silly. I suspect a cap and enforcement, like with OTC drugs used in meth production, would work just as well, if not better. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

  I can buy an illegal firearm in about an hour 
 

I have to head out for a bit, but this has been brought up quite a bit in this thread, and I'm curious: The illegal gun you could buy in an hour: Where is that gun coming from? How did it get to where it is now? 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 6:29pm
Just as prohibition made alcohol 'illegal' and banned, how well did that work, and why did it not work?
Speed limits are the law and everyone of you flaunt those laws almost daily.
We can go on, and the comman denominator in why these laws all failed is?

If man is intent on breaking a law for whatever purpose he will, you make more laws, man just finds a justifacation to break them in his/her own mind.

Whale, do you speed, can your driving at excessive speed over the posted legal speed lead to a potential death of an innocent? And your justifacation for that illegal act is? But the 'law' is clear with the posted speed limit.

You 'ban' a series of weapons in the US, all you do is establish another 'black' market where the 'criminal' elements control the access, aquisition, and price, just like prohibition with alcohol, and current drug laws the 'product' will always be available. I can purchase an illegal full auto weapon any time I choose, or a RPG, simple trip to NYC, and where I know that they are probably still for sale,it is not 'they are banned' the question is how many and for what price.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


Speed limits are the law and everyone of you flaunt those laws almost daily.




Nope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 6:57pm
Wait, a 'law abiding' citizen within the vast majority ogf motor vehicle operators and owners...say it ain't so. But how do we control the others that don't obey the law, what can we 'ban' to make them comply?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 7:00pm
Starting 2015 all vehicles will have black boxes. Around that same time, drones will be patrolling US skies. Both will help crack down on speeders I suppose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 7:49pm
What ever happened to the 'Big Brother' fear of George Bush? The current admins attack on privicy makes Bush's plan look like a half arsed attempt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 8:04pm
Dems and rhinos like government intervention, when it's not a incoveince to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

What ever happened to the 'Big Brother' fear of George Bush? The current admins attack on privicy makes Bush's plan look like a half arsed attempt.
Still here and still against it, Obama has continued and expanded on the Bush admin's assault on liberty. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 9:50pm
And did you vote for Obama this election barrel break? If you mind me asking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 10:00pm
 I am a Canadian citizen and therefore cannot vote in the US. Had I been able to, I would have voted for Jill Stein, though I'm not particularly enthused about her.  

Edited by BARREL BREAK - 22 December 2012 at 10:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 10:05pm
I haven't been on my computer for a few days and its on page nine. Wow. All I wanted to know was your opinion on what might happen.

Whale, what is your simplified, few sentences, view on firearms ownership? I'm genuinely curious, as I find you to be well rounded on subjects, liberal, and I know you own handguns. 

I think in all honesty NJ's system has merit, yet the Government and LEO's pull shady crap all the time with it. Once I get my firearms ID, i'm good to go buy as many long guns and ammo as I want and nobody knows I'm a psychopath. Downside is it is easy for any LEO to find a reason to deny you with or without merit. I think many moderate people on both sides of the subject could agree on that if it were a 'shall issue' deal. Of course, there will always be those that refuse any change, or want to take away a constitutional right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 10:08pm

 

Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

want to take away a constitutional right.
If you care to read the article I posted earlier, or this newer one, there is very little merit to the idea that the second amendment works the way you think it does.

e: Newer, shorter, and far less in depth...



Edited by BARREL BREAK - 22 December 2012 at 10:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


You 'ban' a series of weapons in the US,

And where have I advocated for that in any sense of the word? 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

 

Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

want to take away a constitutional right.
If you care to read the article I posted earlier, or this newer one, there is very little merit to the idea that the second amendment works the way you think it does.

e: Newer, shorter, and far less in depth...


You know, I posted on the ninth page of my thread not looking to get into a peeing contest over rights (because I think it is childish to argue on the internet), but...

I'll summarize the article you gave me in a few simple ways...

1. New Yorker Magazine....Liberal magazine, written to make money. Journalism, not scholarly work.

2. First thing, picture of families outside a funeral home. presumably Newtown victims. Typical media heart pulling drivel. 

3. An article (most of which I didn't read) resubmitting the age old argument that the Second Amendment applies only to fighting the enemies of the state, followed by a soiled-diaper cry over the NRA.

Therefore, I'm sorry but your article doesn't mean crap.  It is bias at it's finest. 

Now, I could throw some links out there from Fox News or the NRA illustrating how most people who own baby-killing evil semiautomatic magazine fed rifles aren't murderers, or how armed citizens save lives, but I am not going to. Why? Although numbers do not lie, it won't contribute to anything in the thread.

Edit: yo, whale, answer me. I genuinely would like your opinion.


Edited by SSOK - 22 December 2012 at 10:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

Whale, what is your simplified, few sentences, view on firearms ownership? 

I'm not really sure I've got such a thing. Complicated issues don't work well when simplified down. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

Whale, what is your simplified, few sentences, view on firearms ownership? 

I'm not really sure I've got such a thing. Complicated issues don't work well when simplified down. 

Bah-humbug.

Reason that I ask is that you're probably the most liberal person I know that owns firearms (classy ones, IIRC). Most people are so polar when it comes to 2A issues so it is always interesting.

I have to say, I really hate when super conservatives scare away liberals that are getting into the gun scene. Makes everyone that owns guns look like Obama hating rednecks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2012 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

 
Reason that I ask is that you're probably the most liberal person I know that owns firearms (classy ones, IIRC). 

I own two handguns which I don't keep in my apartment any longer. I just never really got into the gun thing. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2012 at 12:55am
That right there is the main problem with the shooting community. It is such a wide and encompassing field that there is literally people from every walk in life in it.

Hunters, birders, clay shooters, bullseye shooters, long range shooters, IDPA, IPSC, people training for combat, people just plinking, some totally dedicated to whatever avenue they persue, some just having a passing interest and pretty much everything in between.


Anti gunners seem to be a more or less homogenous group and this makes it easy for them to band together. Even if their aims are not totally in line they wil back pretty much any move if it going to futher their agenda.

Shooters don't do that. While there are some that will back everyone's use there are also many who are willing to sacrifice other's useage to prevent the gun grabbers taking their own. I know plenty of cops who think only cops should have guns. I know plenty of hunters who think anyone with a pistol or a semi auto rifle is a hazard and should be locked up. I know wing shooters who think anyone with any sort of rifle or pistol is a thug. I know Olympic Pistol shooters who are happy to have their pistols kept at the club because they only ever shoot there and think anyone who shoots out doors needs their head read.......

There is a lot of "I don't need it, so why should you" going on.

IMHO if people want to try something and don't "get it" or even if they don't want to try it and still don't "get it" that is fine. I'm happy for them to live their lives how they want. I just want that same respect shown to me.

I happen to like guns. They are fantastic pieces of machinery and the skill to use them effectively is beyond many people. Many people can use them to a level of acceptability, but to truely wring them out, those are few and far between.

Yes I will happily admit firearms get used in crimes and many of those crimes are heart wrenching. No to sound callous but they are also in very much a minority. The number of people who are killed by illegal use of firearms, especially in mass shootings, pales in comparison to many other forms of untimely death that are taken for granted with very little call to legislate against them.

I stand by my argument that legislating against the legal use of a tool is the incorret method in dealing with the killings. Totally random "qualities" that have been decided make a weapon more dangerous are questionable at best. I'll grant that a semi automatic action does make a firearm a little more "killy" as does an easily replaceable box magazine, none of which are truthfully needed to be dangerous. Plenty of people died from stripper clip fed internal magazine bolt action rifles over the years. Plenty other were killed by tube fed lever action rifles. Single action pistols also took their fair share.

It isn't the tool, it is the person doing the killing that needs countering when it happens and preferably treatment or confinement before it happens.

KBK
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