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    Posted: 16 December 2012 at 2:31pm
With the mess of the recent shootings, massive heartbreak, media field day, and extreme anti-gunners already drafting bills (With that I mean those like Feinstein, people who have been trying for years anyway, not the casual brady bunch member) I am curious to see what many of you think might happen. I feel that any amount of these could be possible, but their likeliness I am unsure of. What I am talking about is:

-Rehash of 1994 AWB. I'm not drinking NRA kool aid on this one, but it is no secret that there are people in Washington who want this. Question is, how many and what backing do they have.

-Tax hike on firearms and ammunition.

-Increase in red tape to buy a firearm. Truth be told, this might not be bad. In NJ you need an Firearms ID to buy longarms and then you are good to go and now that I have it I really don't mind it. The downside is that the Government and LEO's abuse the system and always screw with people trying to get IDs. 

-Some BS involving handgun ownership. Unlikely and I don't think it is going to happen.

-Modernizing the Mental Health system in the country and actually getting people help, along with reporting everything to NICS. Turns out the kid in CT was a major whackjob in Highschool yet nothing ever happened. From what I read, plenty of red flags turned up in this kids past. Somehow, I don't think this is going to happen, yet I think it is necessary. I've said before that people who shoot up malls and schools are going to kill people regardless of firearm ownership. McVeigh killed close to 5x  the amount of people with an improvised explosive, and people like him will continue without society weeding them out.

I don't want to sound like I drink the NRA kool aid, but I am kind of concerned that those people who have been attempting to ban 'assault weapons' since 2004 will use this as an opportunity to get what they want while not fixing the problem. Maybe if a ban attempt gains momentum I'll buy a crate of AR lowers and sell them for 3x the price if a ban takes place.

I am curious to see what you guys feel about this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 3:20pm
One of the problems is the political agenda on guns in general. Blaming the 'toll' not the tool user is a political band-aid on a serious bleeder. Many a society have military style assault weapons 'bans' and draconian enforcement, yet every time a 'revolution' hits, somehow everyone and thier second cousin has an AK.

How can you control something that already permiates our society, how many 'assault' rifles are out there and what will be the definition, politcal or reality. A ruger 10/22 can be considered a 'assault' weapon, and semi-auto can be defined as an 'assault' weapon.

Why do we not ban autos that go over 65, auto accidents claim far more lives per year than firearms, or alcohol, that contributes to the highway death toll.

Knee Jerk idiocy only creates a greater problem, The 2nd Amendment has been a target for a long time, incrimental attacks to see what sticks, once the government figures out how to circumvent part, they will go after the whole, and then what amendment is next, the 1st since 'Free Speech' contributes to violence and political discourse. Once that door is opened, we will never get it closed again because we will never again have the means to shut it.

Target the mental health issue, and the 'gangs', not the legal gun owner, but who is easier and weaker in the arguement, some farmer in Nebraska with a 10/22 for 'pest' control, a gangbanger in LA, or a mentally ill individual protected by laws that place his/her right above the 'rights' of the society who can not be allowed to know of his/her illness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 3:38pm
Mr. anti-gun Bloomberg is probably walking around with a half-stock at the idea of more fodder for his campaign to eliminate firearms from the state of NY.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 4:28pm
Pretty sure the shooter violated countless gun laws that are already on the books. You can not legislate morality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Pretty sure the shooter violated countless gun laws that are already on the books. You can not legislate morality.


You and I and anyone else familiar with this side of the argument understand this.
But from the other side of the fence, if guns of certain types or capabilities are harder to obtain, even by lawful citizens, then they'll be harder to steal or obtain by people willing to use them against humanity.

Its a flawed and fairly simplistic logic, but its one that's going to gain traction in the next few months.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 5:34pm
Pretty sure CT has their own AWB. Didn't stop this kid from using one.

What more can they regulate, to prevent this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2012 at 8:13pm
Safe storage laws, expanded background checks, and restrictions on the scarily mentally ill from owning firearms would be a decent start, as well as rebuilding our mental health care system. As politics is, I don't see anything new happening in health care, or a compromise on gun control. Congress is stupid enough to put something out there that would be politically impossible now, and possibly try putting a ton of funding behind it from a lobbying and PR standpoint and doing nothing for a long time. I can't see Feinstien putting forth anything less than a tighter version of the 1994 ban, focusing on the weapons and trying to give the whole country laws like CA or NYC, and not on any type of systemic change. We'll see if anybody wants to play ball on things that aren't likely to dramatically upset gun owners. They'd be better of modifying existing laws to be more effective, but they will try to put together some sort of massive bill and give it a fancy name, and both sides will scream until they're blue in the face.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 8:31pm
Why can't humanity accept things like this as random acts of violence and prepare for them?

Oh, that's right. Politicians are predatory vultures that use the deaths of innocents to further their agendas, and the American people are dumb enough to buy it.

Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty. I've ceased to even care about post tragedy discussions because they bring out the idiots and then America forgets them as soon as a Kardashian farts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 8:51pm
^^^ You ready to sell me that Winchester yet? :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

^^^ You ready to sell me that Winchester yet? :D


Haha well, he mentioned that he might sell it the other day.

I'll talk to him, but I'll warn you he thinks it's gold.

Also, no selling on forum so PM me or I'm on the FB page.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 9:21pm
I definitely foresee safe storage laws much like we already have here in MD. The reality is that it's just something to hit the owner with if someone steals their firearms and commits a crime with them. It's all going to be "feel good" legislation with little substance like the "no gun zones" for schools and federal buildings. I also foresee a limit to hi-cap mags. Of course, anything out there right now will be grandfathered in, and god knows there are plenty of guns and mags floating around out there right this very minute. Not a whole lot of this bothers me too very much so long as it stays in the arbitrary end of things as the politicians are too stupid to see various FFLs as being different and having an 01 right next door to me and my own 03 will let me keep conducting my collecting business as usual.

They're going to have a very difficult time defining assault weapons and covering everything they want to cover with it. Just like last time, the importers and manufacturers will find ways around it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 9:43pm
.....if they pass a new AWB, it will be stronger than the 1994 one, i'd assume more like the CA version where you'd need to have fixed mags or some sort of "bullet button". No doubt some other stupid things will get thrown out there that do nothing and are a PITA to normal gun owners (which I would argue include AR owners, considering their current popularity. I suppose a hi-cap magazine ban with no grandfathering and a buy-back program are possible. Reclassifying ARs and the like as a Class II weapon and requiring registration is also totally possible. I was thinking that the debate this time would be more reasonable, since people tend to know more about guns these days, but the more i watch the less optimistic I am.

From the online posts I've seen on news sites, the left might think I can run train on this issue since the last election has indicated a demographic shift (I.E. white men are the largest supporters of firearms, and a majority of them isn't required to get anything done) their issues can be safely ignored. This is where I can see the President and his party really stepping on their crank with cleats and over reaching. A serious safe-storage law if people actually took it seriously and followed it, would save lives. Even after such a thing passed, it would take a while for people to actually take it seriously. My guess is that instead of trying to strike a bargain, the democrats are going no-huddle and will throw deep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:02pm
I'm all for a good set of safe storage laws to be honest.
I like the idea of being able to own and use what I choose, but I'd damn well better be preventing theft and accident by securing what I do own from others.

If more people were concerned with what would happen if their crap got into the wrong hands, you're right, more serious measures would be taken to keep them under lock and key, and illegal acquisitions of firearms (through theft anyway) would take a hit.

Does that mean everyone will behave themselves? No, but how can it hurt to make sure nobody's leaving their guns around for the taking?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:02pm
Good luck with the whole, no grandfathering.

Edit: Someone steals my car, and kills someone with it. How in the hell am I responsible?


Edited by impulse418 - 17 December 2012 at 10:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Good luck with the whole, no grandfathering.

Edit: Someone steals my car, and kills someone with it. How in the hell am I responsible?


From what I heard today, Feinstein is looking for a no grandfather clause in her AWB update.

You're really going to argue the merits of having safe storage procedures? It may not be your fault that someone stole it, but if you can prevent it from happening by using a safe or something like that.....why wouldn't you? In fact, for many of us, a safe storage law would mean nothing, since we're already doing it. But it a law goes up that forces even a handful of people to reevaluate their storage procedures, that could save someone's life.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Good luck with the whole, no grandfathering.

Edit: Someone steals my car, and kills someone with it. How in the hell am I responsible?


From what I heard today, Feinstein is looking for a no grandfather clause in her AWB update.

Good luck with that Feinstein.

You're really going to argue the merits of having safe storage procedures? It may not be your fault that someone stole it, but if you can prevent it from happening by using a safe or something like that.....why wouldn't you? In fact, for many of us, a safe storage law would mean nothing, since we're already doing it. But it a law goes up that forces even a handful of people to reevaluate their storage procedures, that could save someone's life.


So, I forget to put a firearm in my safe. A thief breaks into my house, steals it, uses it. And now I'm charged for not properly locking it up? No, I'm not okay with that.

If you are worried about a child picking up a firearm and shooting themselves, we already have laws for that. It's called negligence. No different than leaving your child in the car, or letting them drink beer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:41pm


Edited by impulse418 - 17 December 2012 at 10:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:44pm

You're willing to pop someone for negligence if a child gets their hands on a gun by accident, but it isn't negligence if you 'forget' to put away a gun and it gets stolen?

In either case, you ARE being negligent. You're failing to secure your property from either accidental or malicious procurement by someone who shouldn't have it.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:48pm
The child isn't committing a crime to obtain the firearm.....

Know what Arizona scores on Bradys state list? Zero. Kind of disappointed we didn't score negative.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2012 at 10:53pm
If I had teenagers, I wouldn't leave my keys in the car, or laying around.

My key to the safe stays in my pocket or on my nightstand. If I use a firearm, it's under my direct control, in my line of sight, on my hip, or locked up. If you want to come at this from the aspect of a "well regulated militia", if there was anything drilled into my head in South Carolina, it was how important your rifle was, and how accountable you were for it. They were either locked or under guard at all times they were not in your hand, and only one other person was allowed to know the combination to your lock. Nobody would be crying for "common sense" gun control if there weren't such a derth of common sense. A gunrack in the back window of your truck needs to become obsolete. Growing up (before safe storage) I spent a lot of time in the presence of unsecured firearms, and I honestly had no interest in ever touching one. The justification for this was that I was always told to treat a gun like a rattlesnake, rattlesnakes can bite even when dead, guns are always loaded. I also didn't watch much TV or have video games, and there wasn't such a push for normalization of firearms. Hell, prior to the ban, very few people had "assault rifles", as soon as the ban expired and there were threats of another, demand skyrocketed.
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