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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 December 2012 at 1:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 4:30pm
I'm pretty conservative, but I like Unions. I'm sure FE will step in and tell me how Communist ObamAA++ forces abortions and homosexuality on white people through unions though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 4:35pm
I'm torn on unions.  On the one hand, they drive up labor costs when the job (some) of them do is not very skilled.  On the other hand, they help hold company execs accountable, like with Hostess.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 5:25pm
I like unions when they do union business. I despise them when they get involved in politics.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 6:18pm
This isn't the huge deal people are making it. All it really means is unions can no longer force some one to join and/or pay union dues. 

Unions can still function just the same as they always have, except now they have to legitimately serve their rolls. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

I'm torn on unions.  On the one hand, they drive up labor costs when the job (some) of them do is not very skilled.  On the other hand, they help hold company execs accountable, like with Hostess.  

I think that Unions were once a great force in this country, but nowadays they are very mismanaged. Many Union members feel very...disconnected with their leadership. I still support them, but the actual members themselves need to unite and force leadership better.

One Union I feel strongly about is Walmart, or the lackthereof. They are generally known for stepping on their employees, and they employ a LOT of people and could abseloutely afford to pay decent wages without changing a single price. Two stores (one Canadian, one Stateside) Unionized, and Walmart quickly shut down the store fearing it might spread. Corporate greed is the root of their anti union stance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote procarbinefreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 6:40pm
Sounds like the way it should be.  I remember when I worked for UPS during the holidays one year when I was between schools.  I was walking out one day and some union rep was collecting signatures for something and I told him I didn't think I was in the union and didn't want to sign it.  He got really upset and told me that of course I was in the union and how dare I not know about it.  He didn't seem to care that I was only working there for a month and a half as a seasonal worker and then leaving.  It kinda left a sour taste in my mouth about it. 
 
I guess it just seems right to have it up to the individual workers if they want to join or not.  Don't really know too much about it though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 7:06pm
Surely forcing someone to pay or something that they didn'nt need want or ask for is gonna present more of a problem all round?

I used to work for HMRC (revenue and customs, civil service) and this was my first "proper job" I had no real clue what a union was about. On joining during training we had a meeting with the operations managers etc who basicallly said "You're free to join the union but they're piss artists and blowhards and please don't join the union"

Within three months the union members were on a work to rule campaign and a strike shortly after, something about pensions I reckon. I was 18 and in no way concerned about it so was only annoyed that the members were getting time off during the strike and I suppose I was a scab working away.

Now on the other hand I think if my current work had a union presence they wouldn't even think of pulling the stunts they are at the minute. About half the staff are getting sent home unpaid each shift. We're all on 35 hour contracts but are lucky if we hit 20 and when we question it we get the standard like it or lump it response. 

But yeah, it should be take it or leave it. Why would we force people to pay to have someone else tell them what their opinion is and that they need to take a hit out their wages for strike action for something they might not be bothered about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 8:09pm
I like labor unions, and I'm a member and supporter of a labor union, but membership should be opt-in, not mandatory. 

This was a good decision.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2012 at 11:52pm
I'd say that, were all Americans informed as to the nature of right to work, we'd all end up on the same page. Forced union membership is archaic and unnecessary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 12:27am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I'd say that, were all Americans informed as to the nature of right to work, we'd all end up on the same page. Forced union membership is archaic and unnecessary.

There are some issues in hidden in the "Right to Work" mandates that tend to go farther than just outlawing mandatory union membership. These are usually nicknamed "Right to Fire" clauses, and allow a business to terminate an employee without justification or legal ground for rebuttal. 

The famous example is when a guy who worked for a large-scale lumber company went to an environmental activist meeting, even though he didn't participate, was fired from his job in Idaho, which is a "Right to Work" state. 

Almost every state is a "fire at will" state at the core of the law, but quite a few have formed retroactive restrictions for stuff like providing legal testimony, or other stuff where a company needs to provide a bare-minimum level of justification for the firing.  


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 8:07am
I find it interesting that a guy who is supporting "right to work" get assaulted and their tent torn down, and the media in our country ignores it... Only conservative media covers it... 


and it is ON VIDEO... Why?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/11/fox-news-contributor-punched-in-face-at-pro-union-protests-in-michigan/


Still no mention of violence. Even after the Dems/unions said "there will be blood" 

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2515629#.UMdhiYPAcaB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyCanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 9:08am
Didn't take you long to crawl out of your hole, thought you were done?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 9:26am
Someone looked in the mirror and said my name three times...
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 10:59am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Someone looked in the mirror and said my name three times...


Sorry, Sneaky dared me...blame him.

I hesitatr to jump too deep in to the union argument because, outside of class, I have no experience with them.

Having said that, from a purely analytical standpoint I think the era and need for aggressive unionization is long past. While I support the right of a union to exist, I think that some unions exist simply to push wages and benefits above and beyond market standards which is damaging to the overall system.

Not generalizing for all of them, as I said just analytically speaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 11:01am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I think that some unions exist simply to push wages and benefits above and beyond market standards which is damaging to the overall system.

Which is inherently capitalistic. I don't like it either, I just think it's interesting that labor is often seen as this thing acting counter to capitalism because it's people trying to ramp every dollar out of a system that they can instead of a corporation. 

Supply and demand works for people doing stuff just as much as it works for stuff getting made. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I find it interesting that a guy who is supporting "right to work" get assaulted and their tent torn down, and the media in our country ignores it... Only conservative media covers it... 


I read about this somewhere. I can't remember where though, I have a feeling it was on here somewhere. Nah the article linked in the OP is where the liberal media wants me to think I read it. 

No idea if Yahoo is deemed conservative media but considering I have read a grand total of 1 article on the subject and I am aware of the incident mentioned makes me think that you are, as you often are, flinging jobbies at the moon on this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyCanuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 December 2012 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Someone looked in the mirror and said my name three times...
haha good on  ;)
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