Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Same question I had four years ago.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
agentwhale007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Forum's Vladimir Lenin

Joined: 20 June 2002
Location: GNV FLA
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Same question I had four years ago.
    Posted: 07 November 2012 at 9:52am
For the Republican Party now what? 

I think that's the interesting question here, one I think we can all have a really interesting conversation on. 

To me, it looks like the right ran a moderate that was forced to lean harder right than he normally is twice now, and has lost twice now. The 2008 and 2012 campaigns were very similar, at least in ticket construction. A very likable, very electable, respected moderate Republican ran for president. They were forced, through the primary and election season, to shift their views more to the right to gather in votes. Both picked a hard-right VP. Both lost. 

Both seemingly lost because of the Republicans lack of ability to court the votes of women, the young, latinos, and African Americans. 

So what is the answer for the Republican party? Is it to keep the moderate candidate moderate? Is it to go with a more conservative candidate? Is it going to take a fundamental shift in party ideals? 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




Back to Top
impulse418 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 November 2010
Location: Phx, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 9:59am
Run Ron Paul.
Back to Top
rednekk98 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Dead man...

Joined: 02 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:03am
[EDIT] From the sampling of grumpy facebook posts I've been seeing this morning, they would like to continue pushing for stronger voter ID laws since this election was totally stolen by illegal immigrants who already took all the jeerbs. I'm betting they will double down on the crazy. What would be much more sensible and probably effective, would be to attempt to pull independents with a much more socially moderate stance since the fiscal conservative viewpoint is much more sympathetic. Romney got his tail kicked by women voters, all the rape and slut comments by right-wing wackos played horribly. If they moderated on immigration with limited amnesty, but at the same time pushed for voter ID, they could potentially repair some damage with the latino community. Their primary battles with the run to puritanical, xenophobic right provide so much fodder for the general election, and frighten away so many independents, it doesn't matter if they run a moderate. They need a candidate who can say as little as he likes <insert progressive social issue> he values personal liberty more, and won't force a probe up your hooha, tell you who you can marry, or make you birth the child of your rapist. 

Edited by rednekk98 - 07 November 2012 at 10:16am
Back to Top
jmac3 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Official Box Hoister

Joined: 28 June 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 9201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:05am
According to Fox news they should go further right. Moderation be damned.
Que pasa?


Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:06am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Both seemingly lost because of the Republicans lack of ability to court the votes of women, the young, latinos, and African Americans. 
Easy solution would be to stop letting these people vote.
 
/thread.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
oldsoldier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Frequent target of infantile obsessives

Joined: 10 June 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:18am
The problem was and is the 'my turn' aspect of the Republicans. Romney was a poor choice, and too many Republicans fear the muck machine the Democrats favor. Let's look at Hermann Cain as one example, good choice, appealing, would of cancelled the race card to a point prominant in Democrat politics, had a personality your could actually like, but the 'machine' of the Democrats came up with some temporary accusations, Cain dropped and then as well as now crickets from the left about the all so important a moment ago accusations.

People here on this forum and elsewhere tend to see the far more radical Tea Party movement as the base of the Republican Party, and that is the perception the Democrats maintain in all thier finger pointing. The average and more dominant force are the standard moderate conservative Republican. Look at the battle in Nebraska, Fischer and Kerry, Kerry was pure negative adds, the 'evil', 'rich' landowner, vs me the just back from NY I know your pain Democrat.

Those from the larger eastern states tend to forget the grass root fly over country Republican, and try to jam the same into the mold you percieve and are told 'all' Republicans fit in.

You really need to come out here and see for yourself and stop relieing on fellow journalist to 'paint' the picture you prefere to see.

With the growing problems, and the lack of any real progress other than talk big, promise big, and return nothing, only when that bravo sierra ends will our problems be on the way to recovery.

Nebraska Republicans are far differant than Ohio or Florida Republicans in need and vision. Romney in Nebraska was the ABO candidate, the vote against Obama not for Romney candidate. Middle America wants a Leader not a consensus manager, geared to the Democrat mecccas forgetting us here in flyover country, the farmers out here who feed the Democrat prominant coasts want prices to stabilize, want fuel for thier machines to plant and harvest to be affordable and plentifull, and want the price of thier goods at market to at least meet thier costs.
Nebraska corn is feeder corn(cattle and agri 60% of national supply) and mill corn (Kelloggs, 72% of national supply), every, I say again every corn crop was near 45-60% lower this year based on weather, yet the price on the market went down, and the costs to get the surviving crop to market went up. And the Government did not even see that as a concern because of the election cycle. That alone turned rural Nebraska away from any Democrat candidate.

What will Republicans do, hopefully they will learn and now listen to what thier real core, the moderate conservative has to say, the Republicans won the rural vote in almost all states, but lost to the culture of dependancy urban centers through the fear factor of the Dems stating voter for them they will cut or eliminate your check.

And women are fearfull that if they leave the Democrat 'Plantation' they will get the 'Palin' treatment from thier friends, plain and simple, keep the fear in them and keep em on the 'Plantation' politics.
Back to Top
rednekk98 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Dead man...

Joined: 02 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:19am
oldpbnoob has hit on the new conservative tactic on the head. 
Back to Top
tallen702 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - Swearing on Facebook

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: Under Your Bed
Status: Offline
Points: 10951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:27am
They have two options. Continue pandering to the loonies on the fringe right and hemorrhage moderate voters to the Democrats and Independents or they can become more secular and moderate in the views and re-gain the ground that they had during the Reagan and Bush eras.

They have to take a look at the fact that they not only lost a race to an incumbent with poor approval ratings, but also lost seats in the senate and house, and failed to pick up vacant seats in red states that should have been "no brainers."

The Republican party has no central figure to tell them what to do, who to vote for, and what to say. The lack of leadership from within is simply astounding.

I honestly don't see it being a major player in another 20 years.
<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
Back to Top
oldsoldier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Frequent target of infantile obsessives

Joined: 10 June 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:35am
What is the difference between:

A. Continue pandering to the loonies on the fringe right and hemorrhage moderate voters to the Democrats and Independents

B. Continue pandering to the loonies on the fringe Left and hemorrhage moderate voters to the Republicans and Independents.

Both pander to the more radical, and the moderates in between switch as required for the personal interests of the moment. Look at the results, why were the numbers and percentile differences for Obama down from 2008. The faithfull of 2008 saw the reality of 2012. According to most Democrats this should have been a 'landslide' and 'mandate' for Obama, based on the 2008 Cult of Personalityy Campaign and now a 'proven' record, but it was far closer to a 50/50 split than anyone dreamed.
Back to Top
rednekk98 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Dead man...

Joined: 02 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:46am
If anything, Obama has done less pandering to the extreme left. He didn't demand a single-payer healthcare system, doubled down in Afghanistan after withdrawing from Iraq, and hasn't said squat about guns. For a moderate to win the Republican nomination, they need to back away from any statements resembling tolerance, bomb an abortion clinic, drag a homosexual behind their campaign bus, and make a stop at the border to shoot at Mexicans. 
Back to Top
agentwhale007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Forum's Vladimir Lenin

Joined: 20 June 2002
Location: GNV FLA
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:50am
I'm confused as to anything Obama has said or done that could be construed as "far-left?" 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




Back to Top
tallen702 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - Swearing on Facebook

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: Under Your Bed
Status: Offline
Points: 10951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:50am
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

What is the difference between:

A. Continue pandering to the loonies on the fringe right and hemorrhage moderate voters to the Democrats and Independents

B. Continue pandering to the loonies on the fringe Left and hemorrhage moderate voters to the Republicans and Independents.

Both pander to the more radical, and the moderates in between switch as required for the personal interests of the moment. Look at the results, why were the numbers and percentile differences for Obama down from 2008. The faithfull of 2008 saw the reality of 2012. According to most Democrats this should have been a 'landslide' and 'mandate' for Obama, based on the 2008 Cult of Personalityy Campaign and now a 'proven' record, but it was far closer to a 50/50 split than anyone dreamed.


Simply put, Obama's campaign focused less on fringe issues than Romney's. Romney's only strong point in the whole thing was the economy, and I think that's where you'll find Obama lost votes. I think you're failing to take into account lower voter turnouts this year as well. Had we had the same number of people actually making it to the polls as we did in 2008, I think Obama would have won much more succinctly. GOP registered voters historically are more reliable to vote regularly compared to Democratic registered voters.

The GOP simply must get it's ground-game up to par with that of the Democrats in getting non-regular voters out there to vote. What's more, they need to realize that old rich white people are a rapidly dwindling demographic in this nation. Bush Jr. realized it and took a large chunk of the Hispanic vote. Romney could have won FL if he hadn't been so stupid with his "self deportation" line.
<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
Back to Top
agentwhale007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Forum's Vladimir Lenin

Joined: 20 June 2002
Location: GNV FLA
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:54am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Bush Jr. realized it and took a large chunk of the Hispanic vote.

And he did it through one thing taking a practical approach to immigration issues. Not being a hardliner, but not being a full-on amnesty supporter. That concession got him almost 40% of the latino vote. 

And on his word, he took a much more pragmatic approach to immigration. I think Bush's work on that was far more successful in building to something positive than Obama's so far. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:58am

I always thought Latinos tended to vote Republican? Or am I just thinking of the S Florida Cuban population? I would think, yes this is a big generalization, that with the prevalence of Catholicism in the Hispanic community that they would tend to lean conservative? Is the swing away from this a sign of more secularism among Hispanics?

"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
usafpilot07 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
FreeEnterprise's #1 Fan & Potty Mouth

Joined: 31 August 2004
Location: Tokelau
Status: Offline
Points: 4447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:05am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:


They have to take a look at the fact that they not only lost a race to an incumbent with poor approval ratings, but also lost seats in the senate and house, and failed to pick up vacant seats in red states that should have been "no brainers."



I'd bet my life that has a hell of a lot more to do with the demographics of the people who vote in presidential elections versus those who care enough to vote in midterms rather than a low congressional approval. The sheer swing from the 2010 midterms spelled out an expectation of some evening out this go round.


Republicans can't win unless we nominate a minority or woman in the next election. Too many people rock the vote because they feel a false allegiance to a man with the same skin color as them, rather than giving two **edited**s about politics. Maybe Condi Rice will give us a chance.

Edited by usafpilot07 - 07 November 2012 at 11:07am
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:13am
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Republicans can't win unless we nominate a minority or woman in the next election. Too many people rock the vote because they feel a false allegiance to a man with the same skin color as them, rather than giving two **edited**s about politics. Maybe Condi Rice will give us a chance.
I applaud you for having the balls to post this. Clap

Edited by oldpbnoob - 07 November 2012 at 11:19am
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
oldsoldier View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Frequent target of infantile obsessives

Joined: 10 June 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 6544
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:14am
Whale: I'm confused as to anything Obama has said or done that could be construed as "far-left?"

You more than anyone should understand that in politics, perception is reality to most.

You easily accept that the Tea Party is the fringe of the right because it meets your bias, but can not understand that the Left fringe can and does meet the bias needs of others.

We fought a Revolution against an overly oppressive and incursive government, yet we have in place a government that many see as far worse. From how much sugarered drink you can consume in a 'free' society, to being mandated into a forced contract (Obamacare) again in a free society, that is what many through thier personal bias can see as a far left 'agenda' more akin to Soviet Russia than the US.

Obama's past and present more radical positions readily available on you-tube, as well as the associations of those radicals therein can get people thinking who are not prey to The Cult of Personality.
Back to Top
rednekk98 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Dead man...

Joined: 02 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:38am
A radical leftist president wouldn't have had a chief of staff who tried to bust Unions after he became a mayor. A radical leftists would have demanded a single-payer system. A radical leftist wouldn't have taken wolves off the endangered species list, a radical leftist wouldn't have intervened in Libya. A radical leftist would have pushed an assault-weapons ban and required background checks at gun shows. A radical leftist would have restored diplomatic relations with Cuba. A radical leftist wouldn't have violated Pakistan's sovereignty to kill OBL. A radical leftist wouldn't have doubled down on Afghanistan. A radical leftist wouldn't have continued George Bushes faith-based initiatives. 

I'm from MA, I know and deal with plenty of radical leftists. Obama is not one. 
Back to Top
DaveEllis View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
back from the dead like Tupac

Joined: 24 October 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveEllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:41am
Back to Top
DaveEllis View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
back from the dead like Tupac

Joined: 24 October 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 7495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveEllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:42am
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.