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Rofl_Mao wrote: choopie911 wrote: America is not a christian nation, it WAS NOT founded as a christian nation. Your kind is guilty of historical revisionism to fit your personal values, then blast others for going against the founding values that DID NOT EXIST. Source?

Treaty of Tripoli 1796, Article 11.

Gatyr wrote: Rofl_Mao wrote: choopie911 wrote: America is not a christian nation, it WAS NOT founded as a christian nation. Your kind is guilty of historical revisionism to fit your personal values, then blast others for going against the founding values that DID NOT EXIST. Source? Treaty of Tripoli 1796, Article 11.

I dunno man, the wikipedia article on that states that's a controversial opinion.

Wikipedia wrote: The treaty is cited as historical evidence by popular commentators and news magazines in the modern day controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government. Article 11 of the treaty has been interpreted as an official denial of an exclusively Christian basis for the U.S. government.[3] Professor of History John Fea, however, has recently noted in his book addressing the Christian element to the American founding that, "If the Treaty of Tripoli is correct...then someone forgot to tell the American people."[4] Many other historians, secular and religious, have further insisted on the relative unimportance of the document or argued against the position that it rules out the influences of religion on the Founders, the constitution, or American culture, at the time of the founding.

Edited by Rofl_Mao - 07 November 2012 at 5:29pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States#Religion

"Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.
A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[18][19][20] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[21] Others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[22]
Historian Gregg L. Frazer argues that the leading Founders (Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington) were neither Christians nor Deists, but rather supporters of a hybrid "theistic rationalism".[23]"

Also

Separation of Church and State: In the United States, the term is an offshoot of the phrase, "wall of separation between church and state", as written in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. The original text reads: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State." Jefferson reflected his frequent speaking theme that the government is not to interfere with religion.



Sorry to just copy/ paste wikipedia (follow the sources if you want) but it sure doesn't sound even remotely like the founding of a christian nation. In fact, it sounds like they were pretty specific about it NOT being a christian nation.

"Things have changed" is a fine argument, but if people want to play that game, you kind of discredit your own constitution as well, since things have changed a hell of a lot since those days too.

Well then back to the main point, whether documents have been updated, and times/ values have changed, America was absolutely not founded as a christian nation, and those who claim it was don't fully understand their own history.

Whenever I hear someone passionately use it as an argument, this is all I can think of

Americans are by majority a Christian people.

Freudian slip?