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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 8:25am
I never lost faith in American's to vote for thier own self interest. Since the government is trending more for dependance, of course the states with the more culture of dependancy trends voted the way they did.

We had a glimmer of hope, as the red far out colored the map of the US, except for the dependant cultures of our large metros. Even here in Nebraska all but parts of Omaha and Lincoln went R, and ewhat parts of Omaha and Lincoln went D, the dependant areas and the areas around the universities.

I may not be around for 2016, reality, my concern was for my grandchildren who are eventually going to pay for today's fiscal fiasco's and how Democrats seem to have no problem with that, as they are getting thiers now. The Fischer/Kerry battle here in Nebraska was telling of the mood of the country, the hostility between the camps a micro representation of the National feeling.

We have four more years of battles, there will be no peace, nor co-operation between the parties as each no focuses on the mid terms in 2014, and the repeat fiasco of 2016. Since Obama no longer has to worry about re-election (unless the rules are changed, don't put it past em) maybe he can move to the center and maybe pretend he is not the 'smartest' man in the room in any debate on getting things done.

And on the tax hike thing, how many think the promise of no tax increases on the middle class will happen, or will the current tax rates expire and yes, the middle class gets a tax hike in January. That alone should get the average middle class voters attention.
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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 8:40am
It's okay Old Soldier, your kids will only have to pay monetarily for what's going on today. My generation has been paying both monetarily here and politically abroad for the screw ups you and yours have foisted on us. Thank you so much for your generation screwing up foreign affairs with Vietnam and all the propped-up dictators in the Middle East, Africa, and Central and South America, not to mention the fact that you all turned a blind eye to the social security system and decided that rather than up the cost to yourselves by a few bucks while you were working, that you'd all just pass it along to a less populous generation to pay for. The "boomer" generation has been able to simply ride the coat tails of the WWII generation which actually did all the work, and screw up everything along the way.
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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 9:01am
The past is fixed and can not change, all you can hope to do is change the future...pretty simple concept, except for those too caught up in the now, and what is in it for them.

BTW the Social Security issue was a boondoggle from the Democrats (LBJ) who willingly opened and raided the lock box circa 1964. BTW SS was originally designed as a temptoray fix during the Depression, not designed to be the sole income retirement plan many of your think it is. It is a suppliment as designed.

Only part of my generation ran on the coat tails, others of us tried in vain to assist the peoples of the world to get out from under the government troops during the day, and the guerillas of the night. And the current crop of "Arab Spring" regimes this administration assisted make the Contra's look like chiorboys, and the Contra's were designed to go away, the Arab/Muslim extremist is going to be around far longer and self generating for generations, unlike the old Soviets, and guerilla movements of South America.

Like I said, the past is fixed, the current is screwed, the future is the only hope.

Edited by oldsoldier - 07 November 2012 at 9:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:09am

It doesnt surprise me that OH went Democrat. Ohioans love them some unions!

"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:11am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:


Listen folks, there's not a single candidate out there who is as good, or as bad as they're made out to be. I have no doubt that Obama will NOT be responsible for the downfall of American society, but I'm also not convinced he's going to save the world either. 

Probably the best thing that's been said this entire election cycle. 

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:


I just find it interesting as an observation, the States and populations more entrenched in the culture of dependance were the stronger Obama supporters, can't risk getting that government check cut, that will mean I will have to work more, now it just means again that the Nebraskans who voted R will have to work more for me so my check keeps coming..

Nope. 


And it still has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with urban wealth vs. agrarian poverty.

Those in Nebraska who voted Republican will have to work more so their checks go to, mainly, West Virginia, Alabama and Mississippi. 

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Well we should, as we expect more from healthcare as technology increases,
 

This is a really good point — especially when talking about aggregate cost increases to health care. Look how much more advanced healthcare in the country is, especially looking at routine prevention and restoration for diabetes, screening for cancers, etc. We can essentially save someone who is HIV positive from receding into AIDS. Look at the frequency of MRI scanners in hospitals now. 

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:


Two words: Tort Reform

Without it, you will never, ever, ever see health care costs reach a reasonable level.

Malpractice and other tort-based suits are such an incredibly tiny portion of health care costs. It'd be like saying we'll never get the cost of our military spending down by focusing on slashing the budget for bananas in the mess halls. It's incredibly minuscule, and it's generally a reactionary cost, it's almost never a proactive cost. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:16am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Malpractice and other tort-based suits are such an incredibly tiny portion of health care costs. It'd be like saying we'll never get the cost of our military spending down by focusing on slashing the budget for bananas in the mess halls. It's incredibly minuscule, and it's generally a reactionary cost, it's almost never a proactive cost.


Doctors get sued for millions upon millions upon millions and thus, their malpractice premiums rise leading to them charging more for their services. Same goes for the hospitals who they work for and the drug companies who make the medicines. If you think that tort reform is a "tiny part" then you haven't looked at the overall cost.

The other thing that has to end is patent extensions on medications. This would lead to much better competition on the market bringing down medicine costs.

Stricter regulation by the FDA and insurance regulators would also aid in bringing costs down.

As for your "defense budget vs bananas" analogy, I think tort reform is actually more like olives and airlines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:19am
I'd also like to know where FE was getting $20/month health insurance for his employees 20 years ago? When I got my first "real job" 20 years or so ago, the company I was working for had to pay about $200 or so per month for my insurance and I was a early 20's male in good health.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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impulse418 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:26am
How come I can't buy health insurance across state lines, or from another country for that matter?

Government regulations has removed competition in the healthcare market.
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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:29am
Holy crap.... I thanked impulse twice in a row?!?!
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impulse418 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:31am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Holy crap.... I thanked impulse twice in a row?!?!


I thought maybe you started drinking a little to early yesterday. Still drunk from last night maybe?
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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:42am
I mean, unless I'm really, really, really a lightweight (had one glass of the Captain's Private Stock last night) I don't think so. I think we may just agree on some stuff.... weird... Next thing you know, the country isn't going to disintegrate in just 4 years due to the actions of one single solitary man. Pandemonium I say!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 10:57am
I think we agree on a lot more thing than you think. But the way I explain my opinions in a somewhat intellectual and more mature way, is definitely a driving factor.




Edited by impulse418 - 07 November 2012 at 11:47am
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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 11:46am
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

I think we agree on a lot more thing than you think. But the way I explain my opinions in a somewhat intellectual and more mature way, is definitely a driving factor.



I'll agree to that. I think we have a little bit of a division where regulation is concerned (I believe there are certain industries that NEED regulation and others that need to be deregulated) but I think our overall leanings are fairly centrist with a healthy dose of "keep your nose out of my private life."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I am devastated, I remember back when Obama said "we are not a Christian nation"... I was outraged, as I honestly thought we were a Christian nation, as we were founded...

But, no more. I am done advocating for truth, honesty, and conservatism. 

What is the point?

My faith in America died last night. Now we move onto the next chapter in America's history. The liberals have won, and we will all get to see firsthand the results of our election choices. Gas here in Ohio went up $.50 between yesterday and today... only 1/3 of the people in our country even bothered to vote... And new liberal judges, and Obama ignoring congress while just creating law himself through the EPA and other methods is now the normal. 

Resume gloating and calling me insane, as I really did think I lived in a different country that is what I see now. 



20 years ago, it cost $20 a month to give an employee health insurance. Today that cost per month is $1,400...

Congrats to all you who proved me completely wrong, I was clearly off my rocker as I assumed people would see the damage being done to our economy. But, clearly people just believe the liberal media, so what is the point of even discussing anything anymore. 

I'm done.


I really hoped this election would help you see some reality, but I guess not.

America is not a christian nation, it WAS NOT founded as a christian nation. Your kind is guilty of historical revisionism to fit your personal values, then blast others for going against the founding values that DID NOT EXIST.

On top of this, somehow you think that people are voting FOR more dependence when really, if you ask anyone, they are voting for more freedom. It's already been pointed out that you and OS are dead wrong and red states are more government dependent, but why let fact get in the way of truthiness.

FE, I'm sorry, but you literally are changing your perception of reality to whatever suits you best, and whatever is personal to your own values, not the real world. I don't understand how someone who claims to be above the media bias can't find simple, basic historical facts.

And comparing healthcare rates from 20 years ago to now.... are you crazy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 1:13pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

I think we agree on a lot more thing than you think. But the way I explain my opinions in a somewhat intellectual and more mature way, is definitely a driving factor.



but I think our overall leanings are fairly centrist with a healthy dose of "keep your nose out of my private life."


Gary Johnson 2016
Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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impulse418 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 1:46pm
That's a long ways away. Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

I never lost faith in American's to vote for thier own self interest.
 Rational self interest, something Ayn Rand gave a lot of credit to as the highest moral good. It's individualism V. civic responsibility, and is always at the heart of our debates in this country. 

I'm trying to be optimistic now that the election is over, and that the debate will become a little more sane. We have our largest demographic reaching retirement age, and many of them who could save for retirement lost a lot of it with the market crash, either because of unwise investment, or shady shell-games in the stock market involving questionable financial products and a terrible job by the ratings agencies. Again, you can't change the past (I still can't believe we're debating the New Deal) and I'd like to see some serious debates on how to cut spending and raise revenues, since both of those need to happen. 

I'll digress back into partisanship again for a second and comment on Bill O'Reily's recent remark about government dependency. I've been trying to watch FOX a bit today, and it's come up a bit, and I'll give them credit for debating it in a somewhat rational way. To me, it's clearly a racist dog whistle, even if not intentionally so. To point to (decisively more brown and unmarried) population shifts then complain that there are simply too many non-contributers really blows that whistle to the tune of the real problem being lazy minorities wanting free stuff. There are certainly abuses in the system. The bigger problem is that economic growth is pitiful, and its expensive to take care of old people.Thanks to her social security, my grandfathers veteran's benefits, and his 401k, we haven't needed to sell her house to pay the nursing home yet. I still think it's time to wake up and realize that it's going to cost us all, one way or another. Either we maintain safety nets and ladders of opportunity and pay that price, or we reduce economic activity out of fear of going broke, and take our neighbors down when we do.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I'd also like to know where FE was getting $20/month health insurance for his employees 20 years ago? When I got my first "real job" 20 years or so ago, the company I was working for had to pay about $200 or so per month for my insurance and I was a early 20's male in good health.


Faith healing is cheap. The $20 a month was just him tipping jesus for coming in and healing their ailments on the spot. If it can work for his arm, it can work for his company.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 November 2012 at 4:10pm
I voted for Obama the first time.  I never have and probably never will be on any type of government assistance, but I don't mind paying a little extra in taxes for those who need it.  I'm not gay, but I support gay marriage.  I support tighter environmental regulations, even though it will cost me more money.  I support healthcare reform, even though I will not benefit from it.

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:



the intent of my vote turned more towards who will do less damage to may wallet

But go ahead and continue telling me how I'm the one who voted for MY personal interests.  
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