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Waiting on CWP to come in. Need advice.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Another caliber war. Awesome.




Its the new snipers exist/don't exist debate.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Another caliber war. Awesome.




Its the new snipers exist/don't exist debate.
^But, they totally do exist. Wink
 
*You just can't see them.


Edited by __sneaky__ - 22 October 2012 at 7:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceesman762 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Another caliber war. Awesome.



Yep. 
Tolgak, do any of your friends have a pistol or two you could try out? look for something that you like, feels comfortable, easy for you to handle but mostly your ability to hit what you are aiming for with that pistol.  Glock is a well respected brand and has been said to be the most reliable, Smith and Wesson make some great pistols as well.  I hear good things and have read good things about the XD series as well.  What ever you decide to get, take some classes and practice often, two or three times a month with it.  And remember it is a very last option, avoid a situation whenever possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 9:51pm
Yep, immediately NYPD after the Army, then applied and accepted US Marshal Service, worked transportation of pre-trial and convicted inmates from Stewart Airport/FCI Otisville in New York, then after the 'burn out' drove a truck. Fun life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Yep, immediately NYPD after the Army, then applied and accepted US Marshal Service, worked transportation of pre-trial and convicted inmates from Stewart Airport/FCI Otisville in New York, then after the 'burn out' drove a truck. Fun life.

I just remember US Army, bouncer at a stripclub somewhere inbetween (weapon of choice was a spoon or something silly like that), and truck drivin'.

As for the caliber debate, I'd be happy carrying anything .38/9mm/45ACP, although I would love to carry a 1903 Colt Hammerless in .380.  I don't care much for .40 because if I want something 'big' I would shoot a .45.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 10:36pm
Our highway patrol still carries .357's. One of the reasons was due to the massive stockpile they have built up with it. But, a portion that I found interesting was that during their testing, they liked the ballistics of the round when it encountered car glass/metals.

Little things like that fascinate me, but I'm not interested in the math of velocities enough to delve further into the depths of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 10:49pm
I'm a revolver aficionado, but I feel that a .38 LSWCHP +P does a good enough job. That being said, I'd be happy carrying a 6" Python or 586 with .357 on tap.

What state?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 10:51pm
Since we're already talking about calibers, I might add the the CCI Quick-Shok MPD pre-fragmented bullet does indeed dump coyotes and have fairly explosive impact, but I'm not sure the penetration is above minimum. 5.56mm frangible rounds would still be better in that regard IM(underinformed)O.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 11:22pm
Yea was a part time bouncer out here in Nebraska, Strip club off I-80 in Waverly, I was the guy who escorted the girls to thier cars to go home without the drunks chasin them, did door and 'cleanup' now and then. My 'motivator' was a pair of 6in vice grips with jaws set to about 1in when clamped. Come up to Joe Badarse, clamp that vice grib in the groin or inner thigh, and assisted his tip toe to the door. Never started nor lost in a nose to nose, age and decietfullness. outweighs youth and enthusiasim everytime.

NYC had the .357/9mm arguement when came time to replace the service .38 revolvers, we ended up with a combination of S&W and Glocks 9mm's, understand they are going to .40S&W. Marshall servise issued me a S&W 659 9mm POS. Got permission to carry M1911 as primary, with light loads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 11:28pm
It has devolved into a gear thread because the tactics part was unsustainable. Advocating shooting to miss and disregarding accounts of other threats didn't leave us with much.

And it isn't just calibre it is gear as we'll. I dislike the ergonomics of almost all .22 and think there is many a better choice to be made. If the .22 was such a good round wouldn't more police use it? How come the guys who choose what gear to get don't buy them? There is a niche for them, but a more capable gun can fill it just as we'll if not better.

I have never used Umarex ammo. I found Remington sub sonic 40 grain hollow point to be amongst the worst ammo to use. It performed so badly I still have some left.

I stand by my statement that OS is giving really bad advice. Both in terms of tactics and gear selection.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 11:44pm
It is still a matter of preference as a back up piece and CCW. Situations and need in NYC drove me to the .22, a controlable backup and convienient to hide and retrieve. For some (me) it worked and I was confident enough to stay with the .22LR for reasons I have given.
In your situation, differant demand, and personal preference. As a police or military primary service weapon, of course .22 not suitable,(USAF does issue an aircrew survival rifle in .22 still) but as a back up ankle gun the smaller framed .22's are perfect.

I do shoot center mass if and when situation demands, again that UC diliberate miss incident was a need to preserve the operation against the main target, not lose the UC status in a shooting review of a street punk. I have shot 'bad guys', and have been shot, not fun either way, still here, so I must of been doing something right all these years.

For what I do that Umarex stuff does great in the 10/22, and the Model 21. Does have feed issues in other .22 so I have heard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2012 at 11:54pm
I'm all for bigger is better when it comes to caliber, but there are so many variables when it comes to shooting situations I won't say that it is set in stone that one is particularly better than the other. I've seen a guy survive four .38 +P hollow points to the chest from point blank range and live, and four hours later in the day a guy takes a single .22 to the chest and died within seconds. But then again I've seen a man get shot with a .22 (entry wound was touching his left nipple) from approximately six inches away, and the guy slipped out of the hospital over night because he had warrants.
Look at different guns and find what you are comfortable with. I wouldn't recommend going smaller than a .380, but if the .22 sucked so bad it wouldn't be in production for 125 years.

PS I would recommend 12 gauge over a .223/556 for home protection unless you lived in a brick house with no one else living with you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:09am
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Another caliber war. Awesome.



Glad to see it looks as silly to the gun nut as it does to the person who doesn't care at all about guns. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 8:38am
Just an entertaining debate about a tool, nothing more. What tool is best for what you want to do. A 6oz paneling hammer, or a 12oz carpenters hammer, depends on project and preference, accuracy or power. Guns are no differant, a tool.

During the upcomming zombie apocplypse I will be using my 7.72X51 NATO M1A (M-14) rather than my 5.56 CAR-15. Bigger bullets, bigger hole at larger distances. Same with the handgun for that purpose, my old and trusted .45ACP M1911A1. And Momma is getting pretty good with the M1 Garand, as long as she has it braced on something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 8:53am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Another caliber war. Awesome.



Glad to see it looks as silly to the gun nut as it does to the person who doesn't care at all about guns. 


No question. Like anything else, there's merits to each side, the other just refuses to recognize it.

Wait.....that's a common theme lately isn't it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:21am
I think my one big beef with .22 for CCH comes down to the actual kinetic force delivered to the attacker. What percentage of attackers/muggers/etc are under the influence of alcohol, crack, PCP, etc? There's a solid chance you need to be able to knock/slow them down and to utilize that time to escape. It's not about lethality, because if you ever mentioned that while explaining yourself to officers/judges, you'd be in a whole different mess.


Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:

I'm a revolver aficionado, but I feel that a .38 LSWCHP +P does a good enough job. That being said, I'd be happy carrying a 6" Python or 586 with .357 on tap.

What state?


North Carolina

Edited by usafpilot07 - 23 October 2012 at 9:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:36am
Usually a criminal shooter on a drug is not going to act in a way where his accuracy is enhanced, more than not he will not be able to focus effectivelty. Again the object of the exercise in mose cases is disengagement.

It is what you are comfortable in your own mind with, and the situations you feel you will face. Most amatuers will exagerate the threat and potentials, where a more seasoned cop understands the situation he/she may face on the street. According to statistics most armed 'street' situations is the quick 'hold up' show a gun or shape of gun in pocket, scare the victim to comply, and leave sceen as fast as possible. The armed criminal is more into scaring than shooting, again the criminal also thinks about repercussions if and when caught. A nickle to dime for armed robbery, or 25 to life for a shooting.

Since we do not have an armed opposition like South Africa roaming around (except along Texas/Arizona Mexican border) the chance of an armed situation is slim, better chance getting struck by lightning.
I read on some blog that the US farmers along Mexican Border are going more to Scoped .30cal bolters for long range accuracy over close range needs. The Mini 30 is almost a standard for dual purpose. And of course the .45LC revolvers seem to be the norm. Again it is preferance and need, urban short range over desert long range engagements.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 11:27am
FE- What's the reasoning on the mixed loading for the .32 ACP?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:11pm
First round would be a "pass through" round, least damage to the person shot, depending on shot placement of course... I carry one in the chamber so that is my "warning" shot. If I pull my gun out, it is to use it, not to "aim to miss" but, if I'm being attacked, I figure one shot that lets them change their mind before the next three hollow points start flying. Hollow points do so much more damage than a regular round tip bullet. 

And the last three are serious hollow points... I've shot some melons with them and they expand like crazy. If I get down to the last three, I am in serious trouble, and I want the most stopping power possible if I was ever faced with that situation. 


Plus a round tip would do better if I had to shoot through something on the first shot... aka window, door, ect.

I don't expect to ever have to use it, but I want to improve my odds of surviving if I ever did have to.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceesman762 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:06pm
"pass through round"? 

Edited by Ceesman762 - 23 October 2012 at 1:06pm
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