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Waiting on CWP to come in. Need advice.

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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 12:21am
Originally posted by SSOK SSOK wrote:


Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

If I ever felt a true need, I would go familiar, M1911A1,.45ACP, nough said.


Specs? I'm a big Series '70 fan myself. My dad has one that was heavily upgraded by my grandfather, easily my favorite firearm of all time.


I just sold my series 70 satin stainless off a few years ago. I liked it, but my Springfield is so much smoother.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 12:44am
WW2 Issue Colt, Parkerized. Standard military of the era, no bobbles and whistles, just a new issue barrel.
Also have an new bought this year Auto-Ordinance WW2 replica, parkerized, and as issued.

I believe in the KISS principle.

I also have a Berretta M-9, not as much fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 1:15am
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:


Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

Like OS said terminal ballistics are hit or miss.


If you're forgive me being a pedant, I think it can only be fairly said that terminal ballistics concerns itself with 'hit'Wink
The "hit" part is what turns them into terminal ballistics, otherwise it is just ballistics.

Once you are working on the terminal part, how they interact with the given target is not always reliable.

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 1:29am
I believe in KISS as well.

But that does not force you to use 100 year old technology.

Nor does KISS force you to use bad equipment if there is an actual increase in performance with other gear.

My KISS 1911 has better sights, better grips, better magazines, better lights and IMHO better ergonomics than a WW2 replica gun. Why? Because gun fighting has developed in the last 100 years. What worked then may not be the best thing any more.

It keeps fighting with the gun simple. You should not be fighting your gear.

No one uses P-51 Mustangs, M4 Shermans or M1 Garands seriously any more so what makes the 70 year old technology in the 1911 magic?

I love shooting an original 1911 for fun, but when you compare it to a decently set up modern version it is honestly like comparing an Austin 10 to a Noble M600.

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 25 October 2012 at 1:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 1:50am
It's more that I am familiar with the gun, after 23+ yrs of totin and shooting one. I like the sights, easy and smooth pull with no corners or 'sharp' edges to catch on anything. We can look at it this way, the powers that be in 1964 said the M-14 was obsolete, a battle rifle, in a world of assault rifles. Now the US military can't get enough of them back into the mix. It don't have to be pretty and 'modern' to work, Mr. Murphy is out there, and I go with simple and works, more than pretty and a lot of bobbles and whistles to give Mr. Murphy more ways to intervene.

You are comfy with modern, I am conforatable with what I have used, in combat situations, as well as just pokin holes in paper in competition. Last summers Nebraska State Games I shot my Auto-Ordinance in the service pistol matches and got a 25th out of 90, most who using more modern versions of the 1911. I don't have any problems with old, my 'deer' rifle is a H&R Model 91 (1891 design) "Buffalo Rifle" in .45/70 using a 405gr flat nose bullet and full 70gr black FFg powder load, not the commercial 55gr or less powder load (due to trapdoors). I don't chase deer, and can reach out and touch at over 400yrds with old tech (tangent sight) just as well as all the modern scoped 'wonder weapons'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 7:03am
That is good. I'm glad you are capable with your weapon of choice.

I will hazard that stalking and shooting deer hasn't changed since the advent of the metallic cartridge.

I do say gun fighting has changed. The way one will use a 1911 is no longer the same as it was when it was designed. Look at the 1911A1 revision of it. That was already showing a change in how things were done.

The M-14 IS obsolete. It is a heavy, crappy, unergonomic weapon system that can't take optics easily.

That isn't to say a nice 7.62x51mm isn't a good weapon to have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 9:19am
Practice is the key with any firearm. 

When I was riding BMX, I could shred on the bikes I was used to. Funny thing is, I can still shred on those old bikes today. 

But, the "much better" modern bikes, are like riding a completely different bike. Sure they are all bmx bikes, but the changes that "improved" them only made them different to my muscle memory. So yeah, the new ones are way better, but I can ride the old ones like a pro, the new ones, not so much. As it goes back to what you are used to and how much practice you have on a given platform. I see guns the same way, so the ones OS is used to using for years work for him much better than the "improved" guns of today. It makes perfect sense to me, as all of these things are just tools and the tool you have used for years is more effective than the brand new tool that is "improved" and you haven't used as much. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 10:00am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

The M-14 IS obsolete. It is a heavy, crappy, unergonomic weapon system that can't take optics easily.


Wut.

The military is still using the M-14 platform pretty successfully from what I've heard. The SEALs seem to be fond of them.

I still lust after M1As. The ARs were okay in a tacticool kind of way, but they feel cheap and underpowered next to an M1A.

Obviously in an urban SWAT situation you wouldn't take an M14 room clearing, but I've never been invited to one of those.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 11:17am
I still shoot and love my M1A, memories. The debate still lingers about the M-14. I qualified in basic with the M-14, did not see a M-16 till I got to VN. Between the M-14, G3 and the SLR, were classics and the favored of the troops of the era. The switch to the 5.56mm M-16 Assault Rifle was met with opposition in VN because of its tendancy to jam, and the lack of knock down in the close range confines of the terrain. (central highlands at noon you could wave your hand in front of you under the triple canopy areas and not see your hand). During Desert Storm troops were asking for a 7.62 longer ranged better knockdown rifle because of the desert terrain where reach out and touch someone was more a need than close and spray.

The M-14 platform came back into service based on the need of that longer trange, better knockdown need of the new missions. SEAL's Ranger's got the reserve stocks of M-14's, and now from the 'stock' out of the box M-14 to the modified platforms, the M-14 is back with a vengence. I toted a M-21 system for years, loved it, a dual purpose battle rifle, semi for standard field use, and semi for 'sniping' where the fast follow on shot without braking sightline was a real need. Contrary to popular belief the first round does not always hit, you correct off that and the second or even third hits at extended range, if you have a good spotter ...BTDT

What on the optics, simple slide on, screw down sight mount makes it real easy to attach optics. Even stock rifles have the ability to slide on optics mounts over reciever. Heavy is good, controls recoil bounce, and has the ergonomics of a 'sporter' rifle that the average civilian in familiar with. Actually takes less time to familiarize troops with the 'zero' on a M-14 based on the sight line not being an inch and a half above balistic line. Bullet cross is also better and more optimal with the M-14 than the M-16 series, again the greater distance sights are over balistic line on the M16 series. Take a guess why the SR25's and other new vatrients of the M16/M4 platform are 'flat tops' with clamp on low profile sight systems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 3:02pm
I can also teach a new flyer to pilot a P-51 Mustang easier than I can an F-22.

That isn't a very good argument for something. It just points to a low level of training.

I said a 7.62x51mm would be nice to have in the stable. This is one reason why things like the SCAR-H were developed. The only reason the M-14 is being used is because the army has boatloads of them ready to go.

It is an overly heavy weapon system. Good for controlling recoil you say? Heavier to carry around. Soldiers spend much more of their time humping a gun that they do firing it. No matter how high speed low drag you are. The weight simply means you can't carry something else that could be more important. You can do wonders controlling recoil with better designed ergonomics. The ergonomics of the M-14 flat out suck.

Any and all of the slide on attachments do not offer optimal sighting platforms without interfering with the mechanics of the rifle.

The G3 and SLR were better designs, not only because they started out at lower weights, but because they were more ergonomic.

There are simple things the M-14 has that aren't up to modern standards. The charging handle, the safety, the angle of the comb and stock..

This isn't to say the M-14 can't be used as an effective weapon system. Just like saying a guy with no legs can't be an effective sprinter. It just isn't a magic weapon. It is dated, it is obsolete. It has been pushed into service again because it is all there is, and the military has lots of it.

Next you'll be calling for horses to be used in cavalry charges and flags to replace radios.

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 25 October 2012 at 3:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 3:07pm
Actually, the hell with this.

Shoot to miss threats with extremely low powered rounds that are far from reliable, from hard to manipulate guns.

Carry on dispensing such sage advice.


Don't bother trying to better anything.

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 3:21pm
I call for the return of the MG42.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I call for the return of the MG42.
The MG-3 is still alive and well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 3:53pm
Again personal preference and expierience drives my preferences in weaponry. If I had a need for a 900m zombie killing (just as much chance of running into a zombie than a home invader out here) rifle my old but trusted M1903 may even fit the mission.
Why has the M-16 family been in service so long with far better designs out there?

Where you live there may be far differant 'threats', and may need to be addressed differantly. But here in the US the actual shooting of the bad guy is just the beginning of your problems the way our legal system is designed. The bad guy you shot (our thier survivinge family)might actually have far more 'rights' in court than you do, and the ability to sue you. Most of the population when confronted will hesitate in pulling the trigger if it is a 'paniced' first time, and if they do will more than likely miss or wound the bad guy, no matter what 'cannon' they are holding. We called it 'combat freeze' it happens from seasoned soldiers to grandma shooting the guy on her porch. It takes some serious moral insight to actually point a gun, pull the trigger and end a life, there is no 'reset' button in life.
BTW if I were called back into a true combat situation and could choose my issue weapon, yes I would choose the M-14, may be heavier, but one round is more apt to drop the target than the three needed by a M-4, three 5.56 weigh in almost as much as one 7.62X51.

Gearing up like the new 'Rambo' or pulling a .22, there is a moral issue you need to deal with in a shooting situation. I have had individuals in my cross hairs as he casually sits on his porch, reads his morning paper drinking coffee, wondering if the 'go' call comes could I shoot, knowing and watching him and his family each day he was targeted. Same when that 'kid' pulled that .25 on me, was it 'worth' ending that life, that is where the profesional trumps the wannbe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 4:18pm
Howd this go from a smaller gun for personal self defense to practical military usage and aiming at people down the sights? Lols.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Howd this go from a smaller gun for personal self defense to practical military usage and aiming at people down the sights? Lols.


Its the usual evolution of such a subject around here.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 October 2012 at 6:51pm
I wouldn't be so sure about the P-51 thing. Those turning tendencies are really intense. They do go-arounds at half power. An F-22, with it's fly-by wire controls and stability, is probably really easy to fly. The speed wont hurt his maneuvering skills, it'll beat his situational awareness. I bet they are both equally difficult to learn but for different reasons.

OS has all sorts of combat experience. He's going to go with what he trusted most in those situations. Naturally, he's going to think his equipment was the best, because of his successes and possible life-saving moments. A SCAR-H is probably superior in every way, but since he never used one in combat, he'll very likely dismiss it as an unnecessary change to what he treasures. Because of that bias, OS will be more successful in any situation with an M-14 than a similarly configured SCAR-H. Not because the M-14 is superior, but because he will let his biases hold him back from learning the new weapon. He will wield the SCAR with the same considerations as he would an M-14, which is not the most effective way to use it. It's what happens when you are highly devoted to certain products.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 October 2012 at 2:56pm
read the first 2 pages then skipped...

first thing to consider is if your changing your address to TN then you will have to notify FL of your move and your FL resident permit might not cover you. might have to get an out of state or TN permit...

second thing to consider is that you already have a 9mm pistol... it is a pain to stock multiple calibers...

if you have an empty front pocket an LC9, keltec, or khar might be good choices.

winters coming up. a shoulder holster with a hoody or button up shirt might work.

i have no idea where OS would come up with some of the things he said... you would think of all people he would advocate having a round that could stop a threat by force reliably.

i keep a streamlight clipped to the inside of my left front pocket... yes if you need it to shoot with you lose your standard 2 handed grip but you limit them by attaching them to your carry gun.
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