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Voting for the Less of the 2 Evils?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:34pm
^Please, do elaborate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

^Please, do elaborate.

The median voter theorem almost guarantees that out president will be some form of a moderate. 

Having two parties in Congress means things get done much faster than a parliamentary or FPTP system with many smaller fragmented parties. Fewer people to try to get on the same page. 


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

We are not doomed to the two party system


The two-party system is actually kind of awesome, if you ask me. Which you didn't. 


I definitely prefer it to, say, the coalition system that Germany uses, and I don't HATE it for the presidential race. However, if the best way to express my displeasure with the current GOP will also empower conservative third parties for congressional movements is to vote third party? That's what I will do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

We are not doomed to the two party system


The two-party system is actually kind of awesome, if you ask me. Which you didn't. 


I definitely prefer it to, say, the coalition system that Germany uses, and I don't HATE it for the presidential race. However, if the best way to express my displeasure with the current GOP will also empower conservative third parties for congressional movements is to vote third party? That's what I will do.


What do you specifically want to see changed in the GOP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 6:00pm
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

We are not doomed to the two party system


The two-party system is actually kind of awesome, if you ask me. Which you didn't. 


I definitely prefer it to, say, the coalition system that Germany uses, and I don't HATE it for the presidential race. However, if the best way to express my displeasure with the current GOP will also empower conservative third parties for congressional movements is to vote third party? That's what I will do.


What do you specifically want to see changed in the GOP?


It's more about who they select to support for races. Romney is, for all intents and purposes, not nearly the fiscal conservative he portrays himself as.

I'd like the government to stop trying to be a job creating entity and get its hands out of business. I'd like to see a modified balanced budget amendment. We spend too much time worrying about social issues(things that could easily be handled on a state to state basis) and not enough time shoring up the financial status of our country, while allowing the tax system to continue making it more profitable to move jobs and offices overseas. We have congressmen from both sides of the aisle who balloon their salaries and benefits by hiding them in otherwise innocuous legislation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.


that's my every day.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:08pm
My brazilian co worker told me about Brazilian elections. Cracked then had an article on it. That is the system we should adopt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.


that's my every day.

It's a very positive thing, too. 


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.
This.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2012 at 6:20pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Romney is, for all intents and purposes, not nearly the fiscal conservative he portrays himself as.
Definitely not a conservative.  Campaigns like one when he needs to.  The conservative candidates were cast aside as being too radical and non-compromising, or at the very least portrayed as such.
 
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

I'd like the government to stop trying to be a job creating entity and get its hands out of business.
I agree to a certain extent.  It still isn't a bad idea to help foster an environment where business can easily start, thrive and grow.
 
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

I'd like to see a modified balanced budget amendment.
This.  I'd like to see ANY balanced budget amendment for the country.  Several states in the union have them, why not the country?
 
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

We spend too much time worrying about social issues(things that could easily be handled on a state to state basis)
Abso-freaking-lutely!  Obamacare, same-sex marriage and abortion to name a few.  The federal government has overstepped its bounds here for sure.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by usaf usaf wrote:



It's more about who they select to support for races. Romney is, for all intents and purposes, not nearly the fiscal conservative he portrays himself as.

I'd like the government to stop trying to be a job creating entity and get its hands out of business. I'd like to see a modified balanced budget amendment.
 
I think that trying to create a balanced budget amendment is nearly an impossibility. Think of what started our massive deficit-the Bush era wars. Now in retrospect we tend to be very critical of them, but at the time they was a very high approval rating of both the President and the wars. I don't need to bring up all of the Democrats who were for the war, then totally weren't for it that was a typo please erase it from the record. The point is that the government, and the US in general, often times works off of a negative debt due to unforseen consequences.
 
Much of the debt we see now is also a result of poor economic conditions-unemployment drives up welfare dependence, economic downturns cause people to shift industries which can drive up student debt, etc etc. You've got returning GI's using their GI Bils and claiming disability, etc etc etc. The last 10 years have wrecked us, and, rather than absorbing that cost in the private market as we did in the Great Depression in many ways the government absorbs some of it to help get people back on their feet.
 
Not to say that I support massive government spending-I'm very much an economic conservative. But I think that simply ordering Congress to balance the budget would be like walking in and telling one of us we had to get rid of our auto and house loans by next summer. It sounds good, but it's unlikely. So while I wished we hadn't gotten involved so deeply in the wars, I wished we had been more choosey about our bailout money and stimulus / tax cut plans, in the end there's nothing we can do now but offset as much as we can and try and bring it down through every budget.
 
I wholeheartedly disagree with plans that call for killing education initiatives, cutting the military budget by nearly half, so on and so forth. These are drastic changes with drastic consequences. Not implying that you support those measures, but that's the talk I'm seeing circulated around right now as fiscal conservatism. Conservatives have not actually spent a substantial amount different than their more liberal counterparts in the past-it's what they spend it on that's different. So I'm not sure the GOP is ever going to reform spending the way they're peddling it now. That's not a Romney issue, that's a Republicans-in-general issue. Go back and look at Reagan's spending / tax rates compared to what we have now.
 
 
Originally posted by usaf usaf wrote:

We spend too much time worrying about social issues(things that could easily be handled on a state to state basis)
I 100% agree with this statement. It's actually one of my pet peeves with the current political spectrum-but bear in mind this isn't the parties' faults. This is the fault of the armchair politicians who wrap their entire lives around women's rights (read:abortion and birth control), gay marriage, and gun control.  If Romney had refused to speak on any of those issues he'd have been dropped out of the primaries like a hot potato because the people want to hear their ideological egos stroked by their respective party members.
 
 
Originally posted by usaf usaf wrote:

 and not enough time shoring up the financial status of our country, while allowing the tax system to continue making it more profitable to move jobs and offices overseas.
 
Again, totally agreed. I will say though, alot of the labor we've lost to overseas jobs hasn't been as much as a result of the tax code as a result of labor laws. If you can buy in bulk from China why pay an American to make it? This will settle itself out eventually when China faces a humanitarian uprising like we did, but they're basically in the equivalent of our early industrial revolution and we all know how that turned out.
 
Now as far as tax loopholes and whatnot, absolutely agreed, but I believe that those were some of Romney's earliest campaign points. It's what peaked my interest in him way back in 09-he seemed fairly in touch with the tax code.
 
Originally posted by usaf usaf wrote:

We have congressmen from both sides of the aisle who balloon their salaries and benefits by hiding them in otherwise innocuous legislation.
 
Again, 100% agreed. I think this also comes back on the American people though-remember how they just dropped the NDAA in an appropriations bill? We can't hold politicians accountable of the people are asleep when the bills are passed and telling the government to regulate itself against corruption would be an exercise in futility.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Definitely not a conservative. Campaigns like one when he needs to. The conservative candidates were cast aside as being too radical and non-compromising, or at the very least portrayed as such.
Again, I find the term conservative kind of vague. The conservatives who were dropped were dropped because they had glaring issues or failed to campaign properly. If anything this was the most conservative-centric primary I've seen in my lifetime. The words conservative and tea party were thrown around ad nauseum but, as I said in my response to usaf, what most people are starting to attribute to conservatism really hasn't applied to the Republican party since I've been alive.
 
The major "conservative" contenders were Gingrich, Caine, Santorum, and Bachman. I can't see any of those people making it beyond 30 or 40 percent in the polls. The party did all but hold their noses when they nominated Romney, that's why I don't see this vast Republican conspiracy to oust real conservatives from the party. The conservatives that ran were, politically, DOA.
 
And I still think Ron Paul ran on the wrong ticket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2012 at 7:58pm
Sorry for the triple post, but I found this on the wiki site on balanced budget amendments and find it interesting for no particular purpose other than that it's fascinating to see how the deficit has climbed in the last few decades.
 
End
of
Fiscal
Year
Gross
Debt in
$Billions
undeflated
Treas.
Gross
Debt in
$Billions
undeflated
OMB[17]
as %
of GDP
Low-High
Debt
Held By
Public
($Billions)
as %
of GDP
(Treas/MW, OMB
or OMB/MW)
GDP
$Billions
OMB/BEA
est.=MW.com
19102.6538.02.6538.0est. 32.8
192025.9529.225.9529.2est. 88.6
1927[18] 18.5119.218.5119.2est. 96.5
193016.1916.616.1916.6est. 97.4
194042.9750.7044.4-52.442.9742.196.8/
1950257.3256.991.2-94.2219.080.2273.1/281.7
1960286.3290.554.6-56.0236.845.6518.9/523.9
1970370.9380.936.2-37.6283.228.01,013/1,026
1980907.7909.033.4711.926.12,724
19903,2333,20656.0-56.42,41242.15,735
20005,6745,62957.4-57.83,41034.79,821
20015,8075,77056.4-56.83,32032.510,225
20026,2286,19858.8-59.03,54033.610,544
20036,7836,76061.6-61.83,91335.610,980
20047,3797,35563.0-63.24,29636.811,686
20057,9337,90563.6-63.84,59236.912,446
20068,5078,45163.8-64.24,82936.513,255
20079,0088,95164.4-64.85,03536.213,896
200810,0259,98669.2-69.65,80340.214,439/14,394
200911,91011,87683.4-84.47,55253.614,237/14,098
201013,56293.49,02362.2/14,512
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