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Voting for the Less of the 2 Evils?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 11:20am
I used to sound exactly like that...

And I'm not talking intellect. I'm talking life experience. When you have experienced more your concept of "what you know" will change. 

I was stinking BRILLIANT when I graduated from college... No one could tell me anything, as I had "infinite perspectives". 

As I have gotten older, it just makes me realize how much I don't know. This isn't a new phenomenon, as discussions like this have been going on forever. Young people always think they are more advanced than prior generations...
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 12:35pm
FE, what have you experienced in your life that I haven't experienced?

Please enlighten me.

Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:05pm
Tons, and as you get older and live life more, you will understand, but at your age, you can't... 

If I listed all the stuff I have done, it would come across as bragging. Put it this way, how many houses have you owned? How many cars have you owned? How many miles have you driven?

Someone who has owned 5 or more houses probably knows more about houses than a guy that has only lived in their folks house, and has never owned one themselves. 

Just like someone who has owned a bunch of cars and worked on them when they broke down, probably has a better grasp of cars than someone who has only owned one car, and they have never worked on it. 

Just like if you have driven 100,000 miles, a person who has over 1,000,000 miles under their belt probably has a better amount of skill/life experience than you, as they have seen and done so much more. 

It is the way of the world, schooling is only a small part of intelligence. That is why it is so amusing when Whale talks about how business "works", when he has never run a business, or started a business, or closed a business...

Course, if you have "infinite perspectives" on things, you must be smarter than everyone else. Or something. 

I'm not picking on you young guys, I was exactly like you when I was your age. As you get older, you will look back on this and be like. "oh, I now see what FE was talking about"...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

It is the way of the world, schooling is only a small part of intelligence. That is why it is so amusing when Whale talks about how business "works", when he has never run a business, or started a business, or closed a business...


So by your logic a person who has never killed anyone can't talk about war. I've never been to space so I have no relevant concept of weightlessness.

There's a flipside to experience that you haven't pointed out though-bias. You've been successful in the methods you've used but those methods might not work for every person or in every state.

College allows you a multifaceted viewpoint that experience can't lend itself to. Again, flipsides.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:20pm
FE, just because most of us are in our 20's, doesn't mean that you're the only person with more "life experience" than us that we know. The difference is that you think your world view based on your personal experiences should outweigh the input we may get from any other person of the exact same age. And that's coming from one one with similar political feelings as you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 1:34pm
Right, except you can't gain life experience by listening to others talk about their life experiences... YOU have to live it yourself to experience it. That is why it is called "life experience". 

I'm not saying I know everything, or my point of view is the only one that matters. It is just amusing to watch you guys vote 3rd party when you have such little life experience to understand how pointless that is. 

We have a two party system, not a three party system. Voting third party is throwing away your vote. You are welcome to do it, but in doing so you are only being part of the 1% who think their "non" vote impacts something. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Right, except you can't gain life experience by listening to others talk about their life experiences... YOU have to live it yourself to experience it. That is why it is called "life experience". 

I'm not saying I know everything, or my point of view is the only one that matters. It is just amusing to watch you guys vote 3rd party when you have such little life experience to understand how pointless that is. 

We have a two party system, not a three party system. Voting third party is throwing away your vote. You are welcome to do it, but in doing so you are only being part of the 1% who think their "non" vote impacts something. 


The blind arrogance here astounds me, explain to me then the mass numbers of people your age who are throwing their support behind third party candidates?

One of my computer clients is a retired educator with decades of real world experience, has lived abroad, speaks multiple languages fluently, and has seen more of the world than I'd wager you have, Shes been involved in all levels of education, and while I cant say how many houses she's owned, she is by far one of the most intelligent people I know....and she's voting third party. You're better and smarter though I guess.

Several friends of mine, my age (30) and older, successful small business owners, military veterans as well as Active duty, family men starting off, some wealthy, some poor....third party.

People from all walks and stations of life that I'm seeing, disenchanted republicans and democrats....third party support.

But you're telling me that because you've owned five houses you're smarter than they, and me....

You cant account for the life experiences of anyone but yourself, and discounting people on the basis of youth...considering you 'old guys' are the ones that had elected the people prior to this that have created the mess you're trying to pin strictly on Obama, That doesn't smack of intelligence to me.

My not voting for Romney IS a statement for my opinion against the FAILED two party system which has corrupted itself beyond repair, and registering my opinion is NOT a waste, and I'll not have anymore of your bullying that says otherwise. My opinion and that of those like me is just as informed as yours is, if not more so because perhaps the merits of the establishment have worn thin, and its not too hard to see that as soon as you stop believing that one side has all the answers and the other is Satan reborn.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:27pm
Again voting third party this late in 'the game' is an admirable 'fall on your sword' moment, but will it effect anything, no. Other than possibly the 'Ross Perot Effect' as enough third party votes will be drawn off Republicans to give election to Democrats.

Now if the third party came out earlier, with a better run and 'out there' selling it campaign, and financing, where the name was a well known entity in the race, maybe, but till this I never heard of this guy.

This is just a matter of too little too late, and a 'cut off your nose to spite your face' moment in time for many of you.

I would love to see a third party candidate in a position to actually win, as my ABO vote could be for the candidate, but out here where we are not a all or nothing state, I will not waste the vote. I am stuck in the preverbial between a rock and a hard place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:32pm
You do realize having more years of experience =/= having experienced everything the world has to offer right? I can pretty 
confidently say that while you have more home ownership experience than I do, there are other facets of life I or other 
members of the forum/general public could talk you into the ground on. Experience isn't omniscience. And often times our perceptions of our experiences lead us to some very inaccurate conclusions. Case in point: many police officers will
 swear to you, full moons bring out the crazy in people. Evidence says they are full of poo. Obviously this is not always the case, but personally I like empirical data far, far more than "experience."

*fixed with one of them fancy computer devices.


Edited by __sneaky__ - 23 October 2012 at 9:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:33pm
*sorry for the wierd typing. My phone doesn't like the forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

*sorry for the wierd typing. My phone doesn't like the forum.


I wondered about that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

*sorry for the wierd typing. My phone doesn't like the forum.



I can't even get to the forum on my phone. None of the tricks that worked initially are still effective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:


There's a flipside to experience that you haven't pointed out though-bias. You've been successful in the methods you've used but those methods might not work for every person or in every state.

Also, there's the concept of knowledge through observation, which is a really intrinsic part of empirical knowledge.

I don't need to catch an STI in order to know the importance of condoms while sexually active. I can observe the negative repercussions of someone else directly, or I can read the writings in a book based on the observations others have made of those who have contracted an STI. 

Same goes with "business," as was brought up. The idea that one must open/run/close a business in order to unlock some kind of hidden wisdom is a little silly. Knowledge doesn't really quite work like that. 

Now, the argument can be made that experience allows someone to better grow empathetic relations, for sure. If you quantify something like confidence, for example, experience most likely increases (or hey maybe decreases) confidence the longer a business operates. 

But that's all data that can be collected, analyzed and expanded. 

And then the question becomes -- what actually isn't experience? 

Scientific philosophy is kind of grand. 


Edited by agentwhale007 - 23 October 2012 at 4:28pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

*sorry for the wierd typing. My phone doesn't like the forum.


I wondered about that.

When I opened it on my phone it looked just fine. Weird. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 Young people always think they are more advanced than prior generations...

Each generation since about 1930 has been quantifiably more intelligent than the previous generation. 

"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 Young people always think they are more advanced than prior generations...

Each generation since about 1930 has been quantifiably more intelligent than the previous generation. 



Yes, but we don't own five houses, and not NEARLY as many cars.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Again voting third party this late in 'the game' is an admirable 'fall on your sword' moment, but will it effect anything, no. Other than possibly the 'Ross Perot Effect' as enough third party votes will be drawn off Republicans to give election to Democrats.
I love how nobody points out the election where third party votes gave the election to a republican even though it was more recent.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Again voting third party this late in 'the game' is an admirable 'fall on your sword' moment,

I went 3rd party late in the game because I was waiting for one side or the other to impress me. They hadn't on the whole. And this isn't a jab at the candidates, but the parties behind them.

but will it effect anything, no.

Admitted. But neither will voting anything but democrat in my state, so its not an issue.

Other than possibly the 'Ross Perot Effect' as enough third party votes will be drawn off Republicans to give election to Democrats.

It'd take a lot of those in swing states for this to be the case. Since i'm not in one of those- again irrelevant. I'm not giving anything to anyone with my vote, although I AM making full use of my right to vote on my displeasure with the established parties. That's ok right?

Now if the third party came out earlier, with a better run and 'out there' selling it campaign, and financing, where the name was a well known entity in the race, maybe, but till this I never heard of this guy.

This is where the need for reform comes into play. Campaigns at the national level are designed to keep the 3rd party guys OUT of the running for the most part. Your own GOP blackballed Ron Paul during the nomination process by changing the rules midstream. Presidential debates are invite only for the incumbent and his challenger from the other main party. Nobody else. 3rd party exposure is slow because its taking alternate means of exposure since they can't make use of the mainstream methods due to financial demands or an active attempt on the part of the existing party system to shut them down.

This is just a matter of too little too late, and a 'cut off your nose to spite your face' moment in time for many of you.

I disagree. Its basically a 'Neither' vote when asked "Wingus? or Dingus?" I don't feel like i should be forced to pick one or the other if neither excites me or aligns with my personal beliefs. I've never expected a victory from a 3rd party candidate, but I DONT mind it being known when the votes are tallied up, that there's a percentage of America that doesn't like the debacle created by (R) and (D) - and if there's enough of a grass-roots movement this time around, it may just help people realize next time around that there are other options besides the same old song and dance routine. 

I would love to see a third party candidate in a position to actually win, as my ABO vote could be for the candidate, but out here where we are not a all or nothing state, I will not waste the vote. I am stuck in the preverbial between a rock and a hard place.

I think even if I was in a swing state, I'd still be voting 3rd party this time around. Because I don't ever want to feel like my electorates NEED my vote so we can pick someone I don't like. Anyone who casts a ballot isn't wasting a vote so much as they are voicing their opinions. If we can do it here....we should be able to do it at the ballot box without being told we are dumber than party line people.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 4:55pm
The liberty to vote guaranteed us by those who went before did not come with the caveat "but only if you'll vote Whig or Torre." We are not doomed to the two party system(not that I think a system like, say Germany's, is better). I'm a conservative, I consider voting for a moderate like Romney just as much a waste of my vote as you think voting 3rd party is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2012 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

We are not doomed to the two party system

The two-party system is actually kind of awesome, if you ask me. Which you didn't. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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