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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2012 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

The pure definition of the term liberalism has been hijacked by the political arena.
 
Alright now we're getting somewhere with this discussion.
 
I asked this earlier, but I'll shoot again-what is liberalism to you?
 
I suspect by your discussion that liberalism and humanism / secularism would be very closely related. That's fine, I'm not about arguing dictionary definitions, but bear in mind that the political arena is where liberalism as a word got its start.
 
From Wiki-
 
Originally posted by Wiki Wiki wrote:

Liberalism first became a distinct political movement during the Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among philosophers and economists in the Western world. Liberalism rejected the notions, common at the time, of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The early liberal thinker John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition. Locke argued that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property[8] and according to the social contract governments must not violate these rights. Liberals opposed traditional conservatism and sought to replace absolutism in government with democracy and the rule of law.

 
Carry this, say, a couple hundred years in the future and you see the word "liberal" being touted around by Republicans when aiming for civil rights and desegregation movements.
 
In actuality the word has been twisted in the way that you're using it. There is no negative connotation to terms like liberal and conservative, and they don't necessarily work against each other. You can be pro human rights and against change at the same time.
 
The movement that you, and most other conservatives, refer to is more like a militant secularist movement. I think that the connotations applied are almost a conglomeration of secularist and various other ideologies that the conservative right love to hate but in reality those are boogymen and not representative of the liberal philosophy on the whole.
 
The forum did a test way back when and we found that, despite our constant bickering, we all tested very similarly on the political compass. We were all just slightly left of center. That's how I generally apply liberalism-left of the center on the political compass.
 
Which brings me to this...
 
Originally posted by Whale Whale wrote:

Which is ironic if you look at the historical development of academia.
 
People tend to believe that the school system has warped history and moved its political focus to the left when in reality there's alot of argument that initial teachings of history were warped in a pro-American, conservative sense. Nobody would have painted the US as the bad guy in any conflict or dispute in 1950's America. Nobody would have dared question the idea that maybe our system was not founded on the ideas that we had traditionally believed.
 
But as historians began to dig into personal diaries and documents from the common man rather than the ideologues that generally get the attention in history, they found that the traditional view was warped based on the political and military leaders whose lens it was seen through. Looking at history from the bottom up has caused us to shift our views to a more humanitarian and therefore more liberal viewpoint.
 
So in essence you're right, just not in the way you think you are. Rather than a vast degredation of the system what we've seen is an attempt to preserve the integrity of history itself by removing the ultra conservative / patriotic clear coat applied to it.
 
This is tough for baby boomers to deal with because it seems like rewriting history to be anti-God or anti-American. Instead the reality is that history is much too complex to define with a broad brush and an actual study thereof requires one to remove their big bad political theories and look through multiple viewpoints. That's why I emphasize the critical reasoning elements of school so hard...without critical reasoning school will baffle and anger you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2012 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

The pure definition of the term liberalism has been hijacked by the political arena. Conservatives do liberal things every day. Some are harmless things and others are destructive. I'm really addressing issues that I disprove of and can manifest in any group.

So basically, you would like for society to get off of your lawn?
More like, "Get off my lawn, and keep make sure your lawn looks like mine." The modern conservative movement has an interesting dilemma that it espouses the benefits of limited or reduced government restrictions on the individual, but embraces de-facto societal controls and conformity to a heavy extent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:10am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:


So in essence you're right, just not in the way you think you are.

I was going a little bit older. 

The oft-used accusation that the academy is full of liberals is ironic because of the beginning of "the university." 

Universities started as added-on schools to monasteries and cathedrals. They were powerful tools of the church -- universities were some of the only places you could go to learn Latin and other documents of historic and biblical significance. And you could only go to university if 1) you were selected, and 2) you could pay. 

They also taught some groundbreaking stuff in economics, math (kinda stolen from the Middle East) and theory/rhetoric, but for the most part they taught interpretation of theological text. 

It fostered the university as the place where old knowledge and ideas were protected, not where new ideas formed. That concept of "university" didn't come about for almost 600 years. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:14am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:


So in essence you're right, just not in the way you think you are.

I was going a little bit older. 

 
Sorry, that particular phrase was aimed at Lightning not yourself. I was referring to his idea of liberal bias in American colleges being right, but only in the way that he had the definition and concept of liberalism wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:36am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:


So in essence you're right, just not in the way you think you are.

I was going a little bit older. 

 
Sorry, that particular phrase was aimed at Lightning not yourself. I was referring to his idea of liberal bias in American colleges being right, but only in the way that he had the definition and concept of liberalism wrong.

Oh for sure. 

Universities most likely do have a "liberal" bias from some perspectives, if only in the sense that the idea of research and growth is opposite of "conservative." 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 3:47am
The answers we made up ages ago are good enough for me, science is the devil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:19am
What I've found that I like about the division that I'm in, which is the sign language interpretation division is that the instructors stick to the subject matter and the students do as well. I mean that's what I paid for. To me, lessons for the street's are taught on the streets.

As I am either in class as a student or working there as an interpreter between a Deaf instructor and the students, even the comedic moments stay subject related.

A PhD. In smoking dope doesn't require tuition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:57am
Maybe obama could push the concept of having core requirement classes like Blowing dope signals while sitting with your legs crossed 101. How about Advanced free-basing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 4:38pm
Still not sure if srs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

Maybe obama could push the concept of having core requirement classes like Blowing dope signals while sitting with your legs crossed 101. How about Advanced free-basing.


I hated AFB. The final kept me up for days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2012 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

Maybe obama could push the concept of having core requirement classes like Blowing dope signals while sitting with your legs crossed 101. How about Advanced free-basing.


I hated AFB. The final kept me up for days.


The trick is to do a TON the month leading up to the final. By the time you get around to it, it'll seem like such a small amount you'll only be up for the night or two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rose49petter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2012 at 7:28am
Some books are also there which have topics for debating purposes. These books want that one should debate on these and come to a conclusive result.
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