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Yeah, unions are useless:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Yeah, unions are useless:
    Posted: 02 November 2012 at 2:05pm
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Eville View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 September 2012 at 7:02am
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

They didn't strike because of the pay.  One of the big issues they were striking against is the standardized test based evaluation system.  From what I've read. Should a teacher really lose their job because their students refuse to learn?


I'm not well versed on the issues facing the union, but I'm 99% sure that on the news last night(the Chicago channel) they mentioned that they were also against having personal teacher performance evaluations.

If that's true, it's ridiculous. Tenure in general is dumb, IMO.
 
Agreed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2012 at 8:58pm
Chicago is a lost cause anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2012 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

They didn't strike because of the pay.  One of the big issues they were striking against is the standardized test based evaluation system.  From what I've read. Should a teacher really lose their job because their students refuse to learn?


I'm not well versed on the issues facing the union, but I'm 99% sure that on the news last night(the Chicago channel) they mentioned that they were also against having personal teacher performance evaluations.

If that's true, it's ridiculous. Tenure in general is dumb, IMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2012 at 4:48pm
They didn't strike because of the pay.  One of the big issues they were striking against is the standardized test based evaluation system.  From what I've read. Should a teacher really lose their job because their students refuse to learn?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2012 at 11:49am
On strike, chicago public teachers union...

They make on average $76,000 a year BEFORE benefits... 

They turned down a $400,000,000 deal, that would have given them a 16% pay raise. 


How are Chicago students doing in this high paying union environment?

Well, today, they are on the streets instead of in the classrooms. 


They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2012 at 10:44pm
Online courses have on campus instructors nervous. Keep demanding more and see what happens.

Teaching jobs are and can be shipped over seas too

But hey they've taught students that it's good for the economy so win/win.

The les contact I have with those brain washed robots the better.

Edited by Lightningbolt - 09 September 2012 at 10:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2012 at 10:22pm
Hmm, teachers union in Obamatown to strike tonight...

For the children, I'm sure...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2012 at 12:10pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-hc8BjlukI&feature=related

It's Beck but the reported video must be listened to, this individual was a high ranking Union Leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNEirybJWyM

Edited by oldsoldier - 05 September 2012 at 12:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2012 at 12:01pm
It is a private company. 

There are shares of private stock that determine ownership of private companies, how much I own or don't own isn't any concern of you, as that is none of your business.

But, I guarantee that small businesses care a great deal about their employees. Without them, the company wouldn't exist. 

For example, in our business, we could buy a prepress system that does all the work that our employees do in the pre-press and order entry process, this would let us have these pieces of equipment work 24/7, and computers don't take breaks, or vacations... But, if we did that, the families we support with those jobs would be gone. That is how online printers are doing it, as they don't have pre-press operators, they have machines, you upload your file, the computer processes it, writes the ticket, and orders all the materials automatically, and sends you a digital .pdf proof, within minutes, which you OK and they make plates. At THAT point it is touched by a human hand for the first time, once the plates are made. 

So you eliminate the need for a job planner/order entry, a person who orders the materials, and the guy that runs the pre-press equipment. And now ONE guy runs the front end, to put paper in the printers, and plates in the processors... All those jobs are gone, but you make more money...

Which is better? the online way is cheaper... But, if you buy a lot of printing, you would rather have a person looking over your work to catch your mistakes, where an online printer, you get what you send. And if it is wrong, they don't care, and  you already paid for it... (they take cash upfront). So you have to buy it again to get it right.

Very different model of operations. Sure there are some businesses that don't care about their employees but to make a blanket statement like that shows that either you don't know many business owners, or you have had a bad experience that is clearly clouding your judgement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2012 at 11:33am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

 
Companies no longer care about the individuals they employ and will do whatever it takes to squeeze every penny until it bleeds  


Really.

Weird, I didn't realize I didn't care about my employees...


Last I heard, you didn't own the company.  I thought you were just a manager/sales guy.  Was I wrong?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2012 at 11:21am
Teachers make so much money....we should really take away their unions and bring their pay back to earth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2012 at 8:14am
Ever wondered why public teachers unions don't actually help kids in any way shape or form?... well, follow the money.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 8:31am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

 
Companies no longer care about the individuals they employ and will do whatever it takes to squeeze every penny until it bleeds  


Really.

Weird, I didn't realize I didn't care about my employees...


Seriously, the fact that you think that is very telling. Companies ARE people, and as long as you think they aren't you are clueless about what makes this country great. 


If you want to talk about people squeezing every penny out of a company, take a look at what a small business pays in taxes, not just income taxes but ALL taxes. The cost of an employee is not just their paycheck, but almost double that when you figure in all the added government regulations for each employee. 

Or better yet, start YOUR OWN company, and see how you feel after that education.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 8:00am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

I understand what you're saying Rofl, but the reality is that workers aren't going to strike if they don't feel the potential benefits outweigh the risks, and that they honestly aren't being taken seriously, or compensated properly, for the jobs they are doing.


That may be the case here, but no way does it apply to all unions. How are auto assembly line workers with a HS diploma making 3-9 TIMES what I do? It's not because their job is more dangerous, that's for damn sure. How about the traffic controllers who threatened strike because they wanted more money in a failing/struggling industry?

Unions were great for what they originally did; ensure worker safety and livable wages. Unfortunately, in states where they are allowed to strike, they operate more like thugs, forcing companies to bend to their demands until it becomes more financially reasonable to take manufacturing elsewhere.

It's like I mentioned in the other thread about unions, even when you account for cost of living differences, a cop in NYC makes about double what I will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 7:48am
I understand what you're saying Rofl, but the reality is that workers aren't going to strike if they don't feel the potential benefits outweigh the risks, and that they honestly aren't being taken seriously, or compensated properly, for the jobs they are doing. It's the union members who talk to their representatives to file grievances, it's only when those grievances become numerous that the union reps go beyond talking to the individual shift managers and HR people at the company and escalate the situation to either strike due to the company not holding up their end of the CBA, or because the company doesn't want to sit down and actually talk about a new CBA on equal terms.

Trust me, I don't believe unions are made up of unicorns and rainbows, there are a lot of corruption cases involving them, and when the leaders aren't sensible people, and resort to old-hand tactics like threats of violence and whatnot, then they aren't acting in the best interests of their members and they need to be kicked out or hauled in on charges. But the basic job of protecting the rights of its members is what unions do on a daily basis.

Believe you me, when I was younger, having grown up in coal country, I hated all unions with a passion. But having been in the work force for some 16 years now, I can definitely see where unions have a place in the world, and the example brought up with this article is just one of the many reasons why.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 12:36am
Eh, there still are good companies out there, you just have to look for them.

As for the unions protecting abuse, I believe it is up to the state (or provincial) and federal governments to uphold and stay on top of worker's rights. I know my province has strict human rights laws that must be followed and companies have to prove that they train the employees to follow the rules in the workplace, otherwise the company can be held liable for any kind of abuse. This motivates companies to have an active approach to worker's rights.

I do agree that each union member has a face, and that they are people. But also remember that union leaders and other members could go on strike for their own reasons and the other members would be forced to go on strike or risk being kicked out of the union. If unions get too powerful they start to become like the companies they work for, only interested in money and nothing else.

I hope I'm clearly getting my point across, I'm not running on much sleep right now.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2012 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

The city that I live in now used to have a shipbuilding business (Irving Shipbuilding). It is because of the union that Irving moved the shipbuilding out of Saint John. This year the Canadian government signed a multi-billion dollar contract with Irving Shipbuilding... in Halifax. That contract would've gone to Saint John instead if they still had the business here, and all that money would've gone right back into the city because of the thousands of workers working on the ships.

The union wanted more money from the company and locked itself out, Irving said F-that and pulled the whole business out to a more profitable location. Unions don't work as well as they are portrayed.

Another union dispute has been ongoing in the province for almost a year now affecting the only bus service throughout the province. Same thing: the union wants more money and is unwilling to work with the company and has locked itself out affecting service to everyone.

Unions are greedy and unrealistic.




On the inverse, companies no longer care about the individuals they employ and will do whatever it takes to squeeze every penny until it bleeds for their shareholders. Corporate responsibility is as extinct as the dinosaurs and rather than come to the table to negotiate with the union, the company decided it could pay people less money if it moved elsewhere, using the union demands as a convenient ploy to make the move that they were intending to make anyway.

That's not to say unions are perfect in every way. But back to the case at hand, a union would have protected the workers from the outright abuse of power that the mine was pulling.

It's always interesting to see people point to "The Union" as if it were a singular entity rather than a representative body. If the bus company is indeed willing to come to the table with reasonable terms, you shouldn't be pointing fingers at "The Union" but rather the people they represent.

I was just as guilty as you in putting the singular face on the union body when I was younger. But when you think about it, are you willing to walk up to a bus driver who is on strike and tell him face to face that you think he doesn't deserve what he's asking for?

I'm willing to walk up to a UMWA member on strike at a strip or MTM mine and tell them to rot in hell, but I won't do it to a deep miner. That's the difference. I understand that the UMWA is a representative body, it's alright to disagree with what the UMWA or AFL-CIO or any other organization is fighting for, so long as you understand that you're telling individual people that they aren't worth it. Be it a pay raise, affordable medical insurance, better safety equipment, etc.

With that in mind, remember, it wasn't the shipbuilder's union you should blame, but the individual ship builders themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2012 at 9:57pm
The city that I live in now used to have a shipbuilding business (Irving Shipbuilding). It is because of the union that Irving moved the shipbuilding out of Saint John. This year the Canadian government signed a multi-billion dollar contract with Irving Shipbuilding... in Halifax. That contract would've gone to Saint John instead if they still had the business here, and all that money would've gone right back into the city because of the thousands of workers working on the ships.

The union wanted more money from the company and locked itself out, Irving said F-that and pulled the whole business out to a more profitable location. Unions don't work as well as they are portrayed.

Another union dispute has been ongoing in the province for almost a year now affecting the only bus service throughout the province. Same thing: the union wants more money and is unwilling to work with the company and has locked itself out affecting service to everyone.

Unions are greedy and unrealistic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2012 at 4:17pm
You should be able to pass on any vaccine based on religious belief.

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