Another one. Eesh.

Linus wrote: stratoaxe wrote: The old standby of "if they'd had a CCW they'd be alive" is illogical for alot of reasons and I honestly believe that statistics wouldn't back up the idea. Don't know about you, but if I'm anywhere in the vicinity of a bad guy shooting at people, I'd much rather have a firearm on me than not, as it gives me not only options, but something to fight back with if it is so called for. So while you may not believe that standby, I believe the one of "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". Shoot, Illinois is the biggest anti-gun state in the US with concealed carry being illegal, yet Chicago is also the deadliest city in terms of firearm deaths... Just this weekend they've had 7 killed and 24 wounded. While 2000 US soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, over 5000 people have been killed in Chicago from guns in the same time period.

You're missing the point of what we're saying.

Linus wrote: No, I'm really not. Don't know about you, but if I'm anywhere in the vicinity of a bad guy shooting at people, I'd much rather have a firearm on me than not

And no one here is arguing that point. In fact, I don't think theres been a single anti-CCH comment in the whole thread.

What we're discussing is that in the event of an active shooter, like Aurora or NYC, a CCH holder is not adequately prepared or trained to combat the threat.(Versus say, a bank robbery or mugging attempt where there are fewer innocents that you may injure in your response to the threat)

A blanket statement that all ccw aren't qualified for given situations is too broad imo. I also cannot base my opinion of peace officers' abilities because local law enforcement was banned from my club for shooting a bunch of holes in the ceiling and tearing up walls and barriers.

Copy/paste to note pad then eliminate one suspect word at a time.

What if someone from ny receives extensive out of state or private training?
There's no way everyone in ny is laying down to that scenario.

Edited by Lightningbolt - 26 August 2012 at 7:43pm

Linus wrote: stratoaxe wrote: The old standby of "if they'd had a CCW they'd be alive" is illogical for alot of reasons and I honestly believe that statistics wouldn't back up the idea. Don't know about you, but if I'm anywhere in the vicinity of a bad guy shooting at people, I'd much rather have a firearm on me than not, as it gives me not only options, but something to fight back with if it is so called for. So while you may not believe that standby, I believe the one of "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". Shoot, Illinois is the biggest anti-gun state in the US with concealed carry being illegal, yet Chicago is also the deadliest city in terms of firearm deaths... Just this weekend they've had 7 killed and 24 wounded. While 2000 US soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001, over 5000 people have been killed in Chicago from guns in the same time period.

I think you missed my point, sir. Every time there's a shooting the first thing you hear from gun advocates is "OMG IF THEY'D HAVE HAD A CCW THEY'D BE ALIVE" but I think that there are far too many variables to make that statement.

Look at it in medical terms. Someone dies from a heart attack and a family member says "if they'd only eaten healthy they'd still be alive." While that may very well be true, eating healthy is simply one of thousands of factors that play into heart health.

So simply having a gun doesn't really mean alot. Soldiers that carry guns, grenades, and knives are killed every day. Hell, I'll take it a step further and say that even being a good shot is meaningless if you can't put those skills to use under pressure. I'd take bubba from Arkansas over an Olympic shooter any day if bubba had stared down the barrel of a loaded gun and walked away in one piece.

For a more practical application, look up buck fever. Years of shooting does nothing to prepare for your first shot at a real deer-just like years of porn did nothing to help us our first time with a girl.

So while yes, having a weapon is better than not, USING said weapon can do alot of good or just flat out get you killed.

Lightningbolt wrote: What if someone from ny receives extensive out of state or private training? There's no way everyone in ny is laying down to that scenario.

Private, in state training pre-license is a felony. There are no provisions in state law that allow for trigger time before license issuance- even for training purposes.

out of state- I'm not sure. I guess the state can't do much about it if you go out of state and get some kind of training.

There is a reason police officers train with paintball guns...

FreeEnterprise wrote: There is a reason police officers train with paintball guns... Just sayin.

I don't know how they do it in Cinci, but around here, it's simunitions.

FreeEnterprise wrote: There is a reason police officers train with paintball guns... Just sayin.