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BARREL BREAK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2012 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Can we get some mods to do their friggin jobs? We ignored his spammy crap here for a couple pages until BB just had to respond and now look at the thread. This discussion was making progress.

Please, mods, please. Just moderate already!

I'm sorry, if you can teach me the strength to ignore, I will, sensei.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 August 2012 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:


Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Can we get some mods to do their friggin jobs? We ignored his spammy crap here for a couple pages until BB just had to respond and now look at the thread. This discussion was making progress.

Please, mods, please. Just moderate already!




I'm sorry, if you can teach me the strength to ignore, I will, sensei.



Repeat after me, "I will not bait the Troll, I will not bait the Troll, I will not bait the Troll...."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2012 at 5:31am
Baiting the troll?  He's a master.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2012 at 11:38am
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

It has everything to do with the topic at hand... We are talking about what Akin said. And the left is clearly painting the republican party as the party of if you get raped, you have to have the child. 
 
Even you can't make those two things connect in a logical manner. You're stretching your neck to justify spamming every thread with the same tired crap.
 
I used to understand letting FE get away with this crap because, as a general rule, if you ignore trolls they go away. But he spams it regardless of whether or not you respond and clutters up the threads with useless ranting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2012 at 11:59am
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

And clearly every website you read and news you see is right Wong. They don't even come close to hiding it. 


I don't know what this is and I am afraid to ask.

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Please, mods, please. Just moderate already!


I can't speak for the other mods, but I am not "moderating already" because after having looked back through the pages of this thread it got to this point through the natural progression from Idiot-reps statement through an observation on the difference in the way the general media treats the opposite sides of the political spectrum.

Part of moderating is knowing when not to interfere.

As pointed out by someone else, those that wish to keep the topic closer to the original subject can always refrain from responding to the non-applicable posts.

Part of foruming is knowing when not to post.


Edited by Mack - 25 August 2012 at 12:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2012 at 4:59pm
This forum is making my run at political apathy difficult.

Fact of the matter is-

Todd Akin's a dope- enough that the main stream Republicans want to distance themselves from him and his idiocy.
But the left doesn't want to recognize that because they've got gold in their hands and will do anything they can to make sure that the public thinks that's how ALL people on the right think.

Its turned something as serious and disgusting as rape into a political game, another reason I'm finished with all of it.

Now let me put my head back in the sand. Wake me when this November's auction is over.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 7:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 8:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 9:14am
Huffpo...

Yeah, love how they spin what he said. They shouldn't have put the video on it, if they were going to change what he said in the story...


So if you were the child of a rape, should you be killed, or were you not actually conceived in that act of rape? The child didn't have anything to do with it, why does the child get destroyed?...

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

As I have said before, one of my high school friends was the product of a rape, (he even looked like his moms attacker). 




Another example of huffpo changing the storyline to bash Republicans, wow, I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you!


They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 9:43am
You know, as much as it pains me I'm going to say that FE has a point here.

It goes back to my original statement-if you believe that abortion is baby murder then there's going to be very little that excuses such an act. That's the bottom line for pro-life voters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 1:26pm
Which makes it a very intolerant bottom line with little to no consideration for womens' health (mental and physical) or rights.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Which makes it a very intolerant bottom line with little to no consideration for womens' health (mental and physical) or rights.



I'd agree that it's not conducive to women's rights intolerant might be strongly worded. Again, if you're point of view dictates that abortion is murder then murder is unacceptable.

That's the trouble with abortion-there's no black and white like you see with gay marriage or civil rights. The science behind abortion is less science and more a shift in ideology-does a different stage in the life process somehow being with it a higher value in society?

Abortion beliefs lie in the defining of the life process, and such a thing can't be simply dismissed as intolerant.

Me? I'm pro abortion because I don't care. I think its silly to be pro life yet pro war and anti welfare. I find that sometimes life must be disregarded for the overall good of society. It's natural selection on an economic scale. But that's how my ideology dictates my beliefs-I'm pro welfare not because I'm necessarily a caring individual but because I think that there are non progressive elements of society that are either unable to shift their economic position or are unwilling and that a small amount of the overall GDP donated to these groups can either A:) prove to be a rewarding economic initiative or B:) keep them alive enough to satisfy the sociological need to promote human life and possibly prevent crime.

But not everybody will find my mindset appealing (most just think I'm a jerk) so I tend to be non dismissive to opposing viewpoints, especially on issues of human life
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 2:43pm
I'm torn on the whole aspect of welfare preventing crime because I see so many criminals that get a check and still commit crimes, but then again how would one measure the crimes that are prevented because people get welfare? I could easily see someone committing a robbery or burglary for money to buy food if it wasn't provided.
Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 3:04pm
 
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I find that sometimes life must be disregarded for the overall good of society. It's natural selection on an economic scale. But that's how my ideology dictates my beliefs-I'm pro welfare not because I'm necessarily a caring individual but because I think that there are non progressive elements of society that are either unable to shift their economic position or are unwilling and that a small amount of the overall GDP donated to these groups can either A:) prove to be a rewarding economic initiative or B:) keep them alive enough to satisfy the sociological need to promote human life and possibly prevent crime.

Social darwinism is an erroneous reading of both sociology and darwin's theories. And yes, there is an enormous segment of the population that will not shift economic position; social mobility in the US is largely a fantasy. The naive notion that hard work begets success and that all 'the poor' need to do is get off their keisters and work to get rich is one of the most harmful myths of capitalism. The entire system is predicated upon a large, economically indentured class which generates increasing wealth for the upper class.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 3:34pm
While you and I come from very similar ideological standpoints, I'd nitpick a couple of points-

As far as social Darwinism, I think it's very difficult to discount an abstract idea as erroneous. Sociology is essentially a more hands on approach to philosophy and both inspire never ending quibbles over complex abstract ideas. So again, I don't see this as a black and white issue.

And to the point of the application of Charles Darwin's ideas, bear in mind that social darwinism predates Darwin himself. It was more of a connect the dots type thing post Darwin to apply a terminology. My comment was more of a passing observation about the nature of abortion and the economic results rather an endorsement; I know too little about social Darwinism to really delve too deep.

I think that, above all other reasoning, it's important to apply all of your ideas universally. If you can't, I feel that a logic system is flawed and therefore a poor foundation for the building blocks of society. With that in mind I feel that America's current ideological war consists of two sides that exercise very poor logic and I think that this instability of ideas had translated to economic and sociological instability.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:



Me? I'm pro abortion because I don't care. I think its silly to be pro life yet pro war and anti welfare. I find that sometimes life must be disregarded for the overall good of society. It's natural selection on an economic scale. But that's how my ideology dictates my beliefs-I'm pro welfare not because I'm necessarily a caring individual but because I think that there are non progressive elements of society that are either unable to shift their economic position or are unwilling and that a small amount of the overall GDP donated to these groups can either A:) prove to be a rewarding economic initiative or B:) keep them alive enough to satisfy the sociological need to promote human life and possibly prevent crime.

But not everybody will find my mindset appealing (most just think I'm a jerk) so I tend to be non dismissive to opposing viewpoints, especially on issues of human life


Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:



I think that, above all other reasoning, it's important to apply all of your ideas universally. If you can't, I feel that a logic system is flawed and therefore a poor foundation for the building blocks of society. With that in mind I feel that America's current ideological war consists of two sides that exercise very poor logic and I think that this instability of ideas had translated to economic and sociological instability.


Maybe I'm missing something, but how is it illogical, for example, for me to be Pro-life/anti-welfare, but not for you to be pro-choice/pro-welfare?

Edited by usafpilot07 - 28 August 2012 at 4:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 4:13pm
Todd Akin is so staggeringly, mind-numbingly stupid that I despair for your country that he is involved whatsoever in politics.
"Abortion is not "choice" in America. It is forced and the democrats are behind it, with the goal of eugenics at its foundation."

-FreeEnterprise, 21 April 2011.

Yup, he actually said that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:



Me? I'm pro abortion because I don't care. I think its silly to be pro life yet pro war and anti welfare. I find that sometimes life must be disregarded for the overall good of society. It's natural selection on an economic scale. But that's how my ideology dictates my beliefs-I'm pro welfare not because I'm necessarily a caring individual but because I think that there are non progressive elements of society that are either unable to shift their economic position or are unwilling and that a small amount of the overall GDP donated to these groups can either A:) prove to be a rewarding economic initiative or B:) keep them alive enough to satisfy the sociological need to promote human life and possibly prevent crime.

But not everybody will find my mindset appealing (most just think I'm a jerk) so I tend to be non dismissive to opposing viewpoints, especially on issues of human life


Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:



I think that, above all other reasoning, it's important to apply all of your ideas universally. If you can't, I feel that a logic system is flawed and therefore a poor foundation for the building blocks of society. With that in mind I feel that America's current ideological war consists of two sides that exercise very poor logic and I think that this instability of ideas had translated to economic and sociological instability.


Maybe I'm missing something, but how is it illogical, for example, for me to be Pro-life/anti-welfare, but not for you to be pro-choice/pro-welfare?


It depends on your ideology.

If you follow the Republican platform of the sanctity of life you run into a huge ideological contradiction. There are a million reasons to be pro or anti abortion,but the common Republican standby of value of life becomes self defeating when you're violently anti-welfare nd blindly pro-war.

There are a myriad of reasons you could be both and not self contradicting. Social responsibility and so forth. But the Republican platform, and really the Democrat platform as well, has made such an effort to appeal to everyone that their own reasoning has become self defeating.

As far as my own beliefs, I feel that both welfare programs and abortion are beneficial in the long run. I could be wrong, in fact odds are that most of us are in some way wrong.

Again, I'm attacking the political platforms of both parties, but in this case the Republican party in specific. I should probably have been more specific in stating that.

Also, like I said, it's very difficult to speak in absolutes and argue abstract thought. I don't feel that my opinions better than yours, it just suits my outlook better. From a moral perspective I can only think of a few reasons you'd be morally justified in having an abortion but arguing individual moral outlooks is tiring. It's more fun to delve into socioeconomics and play with variables.

Edited by stratoaxe - 28 August 2012 at 4:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2012 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Huffpo...

Yeah, love how they spin what he said. They shouldn't have put the video on it, if they were going to change what he said in the story...


So if you were the child of a rape, should you be killed, or were you not actually conceived in that act of rape? The child didn't have anything to do with it, why does the child get destroyed?...

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

As I have said before, one of my high school friends was the product of a rape, (he even looked like his moms attacker). 





Another example of huffpo changing the storyline to bash Republicans, wow, I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you!




Because it's NOT a child, it's some cells. Your religious beliefs should not change my legal rights to access safe solutions to life-altering problems. I can't imagine the poo-fit you would throw if ANY other religion came in and tried to pass a law about what you can or cant do with your body, why is it okay for yours to do the same?
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