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Mayor of Boston attacks Chick-fil-a...

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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2012 at 10:50pm
Not to fuel a fire here, but as someone was born and raised in the south I have no problem with Choop's statement.

The disturbing truth is that there are a larger number of people around me at any given time who support segregation than those who have any serious opinions about gay marriage at all.

There's a deep rooted and unspoken belief in my region of the world that basically blames crime and corruption on the civil rights movement. You won't hear it spoken of much thanks to political correctness, but it's there and the existence of a black president has really brought it the surface.

That said, FE doesn't strike me as a blind hater. I don't see alot of venom in his posts, I just think he stretches his neck to try to validate his right wing tendencies. There's a big line between "bothered by" and "hatred." Coming from a part of the world where real venom is ever present , I don't see it with FE. I actually see FE as a good person with poor sources.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2012 at 4:20am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I don't see it with FE. I actually see FE as a good person with poor sources.


Exactly. I dont see FE as a hotemonger out to hurt those around him, I see him as a blind vigilante out to hurt those around him based on what he's told. He likes to think of himself as a judgemental thinker, but he's not. He blindly belives what he's told to, and attacks others for being sheep. I have no problem with labelling him because of the hatred he spews in the idea of whats right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2012 at 5:38pm
I'd still love to hear what part of FE's position here actually counts as small government. So far I've yet to find it.
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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2012 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

I'd still love to hear what part of FE's position here actually counts as small government. So far I've yet to find it.
 
I've found throughout my life that the reason small government has never prospered as a political system is because nobody truly endorses it universally.
 
The conservative right essentially endorses small government when it comes to business. They want a hands off approach. This is why so many people such as myself choose to identify with the right politically...I like the conservative economic approach.
 
Except...I don't identify with the right because the right isn't conservative. They preach small government yet want mass amounts of money funneled into a basically unregulated unchained military complex. The preach freedom of religion yet are the first to imply that Islam is, as a religious way of life, the enemy of the United States. They preach the sanctity of life when it comes to abortion but then advocate restricting welfare programs because the parents aren't working.
 
Modern day conservative ideology is twisted and self defeating and it's why they're having trouble pulling numbers to beat the most loathed president since the last one (who by the way they endorse despite his move to big government, constriction of civil liberties, and bank bailouts.)


Edited by stratoaxe - 19 August 2012 at 11:12pm
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usafpilot07 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2012 at 12:20am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

]
The conservative right essentially endorses small government when it comes to business. They want a hands off approach. This is why so many people such as myself choose to identify with the right politically...I like the conservative economic approach.

 

Except...I don't identify with the right because the right isn't conservative. They preach small government yet want mass amounts of money funneled into a basically unregulated unchained military complex. The preach freedom of religion yet are the first to imply that Islam is, as a religious way of life, the enemy of the United States. They preach the sanctity of life when it comes to abortion but then advocate restricting welfare programs because the parents aren't working.


I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but do you equate welfare restrictions with abortion? That's a pretty big stretch, IMHO
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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2012 at 2:57am
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

]
The conservative right essentially endorses small government when it comes to business. They want a hands off approach. This is why so many people such as myself choose to identify with the right politically...I like the conservative economic approach.

 

Except...I don't identify with the right because the right isn't conservative. They preach small government yet want mass amounts of money funneled into a basically unregulated unchained military complex. The preach freedom of religion yet are the first to imply that Islam is, as a religious way of life, the enemy of the United States. They preach the sanctity of life when it comes to abortion but then advocate restricting welfare programs because the parents aren't working.


I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but do you equate welfare restrictions with abortion? That's a pretty big stretch, IMHO


From a purely ideological standpoint I think that they're inseparable issues.

The right's pursuit to protect the value of human life seems to be limited to abortion. After abortion it becomes purely economic-get off your ass and provide for yourself.

Now to be clear I have no problem with either of these viewpoints, but they're not from the same logic pool. Say you feel that the stability and future of all society depends on access to individual wealth and that the welfare system is threatening that pool of wealth-we could debate that for hours. It's a perfectly logical foundation for an argument. I don't think it's necessarily immoral to set aside the human element in order to ensure survival of a society. In this position both abortion and welfare elimination can make sense.

But when you regulate law on the basis of human life you're drawing from a completely different pool of ideas. Suddenly human life supersedes economic well being. This is also a perfectly logical platform to preach from. But what about after birth? What about the QUALITY of human life? Food stamps and Medicaid programs are quite valuable in this pursuit. It almost seems sadistic to say you want a child to live but not live well.

Obviously this is extreme oversimplification of the issues, but it illustrates my concept. If you're simply pro life because you think abortion is murder that's one thing. But life doesn't end at birth.

I'm not saying you can't be pro life and anti welfare, but I think that there's a real contradiction in the language I hear from conservatives as of late. I've said this time and time again, but I consider myself conservative. I'm pro business, pro gun, and pro states' rights. But I'm also pro choice, pro gay marriage, and pro welfare (to a reasonable degree.)

But the far right elements of the party see my values as a contradiction. The funny thing is that I feel like a majority of Americans hold this platform. I feel like, had Romney been allowed to run as the moderate he was rather than pandering to these elements, the right could have worked wonders with this election. Instead, the key issue is going to revolve around a chicken sandwich. /facepalm America
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2012 at 3:02am
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


As by definition a person who has sex with a person of the same sex is in fact a homosexual. 


So I can physically go make someone a homosexual against their will? Doesn't that idea terrify you FE? That someone could roofie you and have their way with you and suddenly you would be a homosexual for the rest of your life? Because that's totally how it works.
I'll do the "Rob Roy" quote here.  "If you take no pleasure in it, it isn't a sin."
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 August 2012 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:


Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


As by definition a person who has sex with a person of the same sex is in fact a homosexual. 


So I can physically go make someone a homosexual against their will? Doesn't that idea terrify you FE? That someone could roofie you and have their way with you and suddenly you would be a homosexual for the rest of your life? Because that's totally how it works.

I'll do the "Rob Roy" quote here.  "If you take no pleasure in it, it isn't a sin."
 


That justifies all sorts o' murder.
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FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2012 at 9:23am
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to speculate like that.


I'm not really speculating, it's an observation based on his logic and stream of thought, and where he gets his values and how strongly he sticks to those values despite their obvious negative impact, plus his willful ignorance of fact.

I know it's a harsh thing to say, but I absolutely believe it would be the case, simply by what he blinbly bases his opinions on.


Ah, no. 

stop making strawmans and attributing them to me. I say what I believe, you don't  have to invent things "you think" I believe to slam on me for. 



The truth about SPLC, which I'm sure Whale has no clue about their history, or their leader and his scam of corruption he is profiting from with his "hate list" fundraising... 


"Perhaps if you personally know people who swear by the validity of the new SPLC hate map you may want to nicely inform them they are now charter members of the new secular version of the PTL Club and watch the reaction.  If they get angry, remind them that this is not the assessment of the political right.  The most damning quotes about Dees and the SPLC all come from former associates on the political left."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2012 at 1:08pm
Oh American Thinker, you so silly. 
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This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2012 at 1:16pm
My whole problem with the issue is the almost government sanction of a religious discrimination.

'The Party of Diversity' driving and almost leading the anti Chick-Fil-A movement are actually sanctioning religious discrimination based on the judeo christian belief system of the owner. But the same individuals would defend to the death a Islamic/Muslim business owner with more traditional beliefs based in the Koran who ran his bussiness acording to that belief system.

Again another 'wag the dog' conflict to distract the American public on the true and needed look to review issues of the economy and the upcoming election.

BTW there is a Middle Eastern small chain here in Lincoln/Omaha that 'suggest' female patrons wear tradition headgear while they dine, where would that play in the 'Chic-Fil-A' arguement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 August 2012 at 3:45pm
I think the whole argument is pretty stupid, If I want a chicken sandwich that bad I will take it from the dead hand of Hitler himself. If I think a company is that bad I make it a personal decision not to use them.  I can't really uphold a view that this guys personal opinions, beliefs and principles should mean that he should not be able to operate a business providing that these controversial beliefs do not come across in the business.

Disagreeing with homosexuality is one of those things that you will get ostracised for if you make the views public. Do I agree with this? I'm not sure. Should any views provided that they are private and not imposed or used in a way as to affect another person through no fault of their own be less valid than another? Not really.

If the company was to insist on customers signing a document stating that they don't "putt from the rough" and sit the ones that do in some kind of box so the other customers don't need to share their air then I think I could understand a government stepping in but considering you yanks bang on about freedom so bloody much I think it's a bit daft.

I actually see your point OS there is a well documented feeling that minorities are treated with kid gloves through fear of offending them, almost the final taboo now. I don't have a problem with the example you mentioned. If I went to a synagogue for any reason I'd probably stick one of those wee hats on and with the request that the girls go along with the dress code at this restaurant there is also an implied welcome. It could ironically be good to get the beanie hat wearing hemp trousered patron in the door to start with as they bask in the rich culture etc

I've kind of lost my train of thought but meh if there's anything decent in their then you're welcome.
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