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Gay marketing: Cultural indicator or cheap grab?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 9:56am
The phrase on the American Fugio cent of 1787 put it best.

"mind your business"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 10:15am
Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

Finally, I still see a need for gay pride parades.

I would agree with this as well. Not that "parade" is the needed thing per se, but public in-group activity helps acclimate the general public towards acceptance of an out-group. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:


Finally, I still see a need for gay pride parades. There is still a social stigma associated with being gay. One of my closest friends cant even tell her parents shes gay because she knows they will disown her, and she's by no means alone. You may not like what you see, but its not about trying to make society comfortable with gays, its about homosexuals being comfortable with themselves, regardless of society's opinion.
 
And again, I think that if the homosexual community wants a parade, let them parade. I have no problem or concern with anyone throwing a parade for almost any reason. I just feel that homosexuality is at the core of a deep rooted clash of ideologies in America-the religious right and the secural left. This isn't going to go away anytime soon no matter how in your face the community is about it.
 
In the end you can't force someone to accept or be comfortable around you. I don't feel anyone should change who they are just because their loved ones don't approve, but at the same time sometimes you have to accept that disapproval and move on. Sometimes life comes down to hard choices where you choose to compromise your values in order to reach out to loved ones or choose to simply accept that their approval / disapproval doesn't govern your life.
 
This is how I see society's acceptance of homosexuality in general-there will be those that do and those don't. You can reach out to those who don't, but that may or may not be a fruitful exercise. The only thing we as a society owe any group is equality and nothing more.
 
And that's where I think the discussion comes to a needle point-equality. We have to examine the set of rights that a person enjoys and say "What do we need to do to solve this issue?" That's the simple truth as I see it-but when you create scenarios that don't exist and blow up the situation as it stands you create a whole myriad of feelings that are unnecessary to the cause. The more any group overstates its own victimization the less society can focus on fixing the problems at hand.
 
The parades are a double edged sword. If we're talking a group of homosexuals gathering in order to show society that they exist and who they are, great. But when things get edgier and more fringe elements come out the celebrations turn into division points. I'm not saying you shouldn't attempt to be individualistic, but if the goal is integration sometimes having a parade simply to point out how different you are can be counterproductive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2012 at 8:27pm
Perhaps my exact point wasn't as clear as I intended. I do think in part gay pride parades tend to promote social awareness and maybe even acceptance, but they do also galvanize a crowd and can also lead to more hate against gays.

But the main reason is not for social acceptance, but personal acceptance. I would imagine it would be difficult living a lifestyle that many see as immoral and wrong. We're a social species, and we instinctively seek people like us. Marching with hundreds of other people like you would make you feel more comfortable with yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 3:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 6:41pm
I wonder how this thread would go if the word gays was changed to ethnic hate group.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 7:49pm
Apples to opinions.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

I wonder how this thread would go if the word gays was changed to ethnic hate group.


Sorry what's the relation/ comparison here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 10:07pm
Life styles and beliefs openly exercised and displayed in public
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 10:12pm
JCPenney felt the heat from their promotion of the gay agenda. They were boycotted by OneMillionMoms a pro family advocacy group. 


http://bruni.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/penneys-gay-wager/ 

And that boycott clearly had a huge impact on their business... As they just fired their President for the massive drop in stock price which followed a horrific quarter which many have said  (but not in the media... weird...) was based on the boycott of so many moms, who is JCPenney's targer market.


Companies are welcome to make their progressive social values known, so that traditional value families can decide where to spend their money...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 10:47pm
Personally, I feel the "traditional family" rhetoric is a bit of a cop-out. The "traditional" family is the remnants of an ideology that lasted for a few years back in the 50's. It, on it's own, was an oppressive, male-domineering lifestyle, but that's not the point of this thread.

There is no such thing as a traditional family. The man works. The woman works. The kid is raised by a baby-sitter/daycare. Everyone is still broke. What was traditional then is not traditional now. What is not traditional now can't be traditional in the future. Thus, there is no "tradition." The only thing traditional is a man is legally hitched to a woman. Hell, the fundamental religious aspect of a family unit changes as people see fit.

I just get the impression the "traditional family" argument is a fall-back term so people against gay marriage for no particular reason have some kind of flag to wave...


Edited by DeTrevni - 30 June 2012 at 11:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 11:37pm
The words in the bible don't change. I won't point fingers but a particular mega denomination does like to adjust their beliefs to keep their pews full. I consider it corruption.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2012 at 11:49pm
No, the words in the Bible don't change. And that's what's so worrisome. The ideal family 1,000+ years ago is CERTAINLY different from today's "ideals." The folks picking and choosing which parts of the Bible to follow and thump and which to ignore is, well, disheartening to say the least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 12:29am
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

The words in the bible don't change. I won't point fingers but a particular mega denomination does like to adjust their beliefs to keep their pews full. I consider it corruption.


Actually, they change all the time if you chose to read the various translations and codecies available, you'd know that.

Also, the words in the bible say not to wear mixed fibers, to make your wife sleep in a different building when she's on the rag, and to burn your house to the ground and re-build if you get mildew more than once in the exact same book where it talks about homosexuality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 12:39am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

JCPenney felt the heat from their promotion of the gay agenda. They were boycotted by OneMillionMoms a pro family advocacy group. 


http://bruni.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/penneys-gay-wager/ 

And that boycott clearly had a huge impact on their business... As they just fired their President for the massive drop in stock price which followed a horrific quarter which many have said  (but not in the media... weird...) was based on the boycott of so many moms, who is JCPenney's targer market.


Companies are welcome to make their progressive social values known, so that traditional value families can decide where to spend their money...]


And conclusions have been jumped to; Hooray for correlation! Did you know that Obama got elected because I have a cat named Ollie? I mean, I got the cat and named him Ollie and then Obama was elected president, so it MUST be true!

JCP has been fighting a loosing battle the same as Sears, Filene's, Macy's, and every other department store chain out there. Not one single one has seen an uptake in business, and all are hemorrhaging cash like nobody's business for several years now. The reality is that brick and mortar stores are a dying breed. Even Best Buy who were crowing about the death of Circuit City just a few years ago are starting to lose stores by the dozens. It has zero to do with the One "Million" Moms organization (which is a listed hate group by the way) especially considering they also boycott:

7-Eleven
Abercrombie & Fitch
American Airlines
American Girl
Blockbuster Video
Burger King
Calvin Klein
Carl's Jr.
Clorox
Comcast
Crest
Ford
Hallmark Cards
Kmart
Kraft Foods
S. C. Johnson & Son
Movie Gallery
Microsoft
MTV
Mary Kay
NutriSystem
Old Navy
IKEA
Sears
Pampers
Procter & Gamble
Target
Tide
Walt Disney Company
and PepsiCo

And... you know.... all of them have had crappy first quarters, dismal stock prices, and fired their CEO's all because of a boycott by a hate group with little to no relevance.

It's statements like the one you made FE that really make me question how much you think things trough. We agree on some things, but making that kind of correlation statement is just silly man!

Edited by tallen702 - 01 July 2012 at 12:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 3:08am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

   The reality is that brick and mortar stores are a dying breed.


But they are TRADITIONAL! They must be saved!

Honestly? Basing any argument on the BIBLE is a losing proposition. There are too many different forms of Christianity, many with conflicting arguments, to be taken seriously. Honestly? They all claim to be right, at the peril of your mortal soul. Matthew 7:3. How about you get your own house in order before dictating to others how to run their lives.

And you are all meant to agree on things. You are all "Christians" and all follow the same book that was Devinely delivered.

Until that happens, how about you let other people carry on with what they want, so long as it is consensual.

OneMillionMoms sounds like a bunch of people with too much time on their hands and an inflated sense of self worth.

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Edited by Kayback - 01 July 2012 at 3:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 4:23am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

JCPenney felt the heat from their promotion of the gay agenda. They were boycotted by OneMillionMoms a pro family advocacy group. 


http://bruni.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/penneys-gay-wager/ 

And that boycott clearly had a huge impact on their business... As they just fired their President for the massive drop in stock price which followed a horrific quarter which many have said  (but not in the media... weird...) was based on the boycott of so many moms, who is JCPenney's targer market.


Companies are welcome to make their progressive social values known, so that traditional value families can decide where to spend their money...]


And conclusions have been jumped to; Hooray for correlation! Did you know that Obama got elected because I have a cat named Ollie? I mean, I got the cat and named him Ollie and then Obama was elected president, so it MUST be true!

JCP has been fighting a loosing battle the same as Sears, Filene's, Macy's, and every other department store chain out there. Not one single one has seen an uptake in business, and all are hemorrhaging cash like nobody's business for several years now. The reality is that brick and mortar stores are a dying breed. Even Best Buy who were crowing about the death of Circuit City just a few years ago are starting to lose stores by the dozens. It has zero to do with the One "Million" Moms organization (which is a listed hate group by the way) especially considering they also boycott:

7-Eleven
Abercrombie & Fitch
American Airlines
American Girl
Blockbuster Video
Burger King
Calvin Klein
Carl's Jr.
Clorox
Comcast
Crest
Ford
Hallmark Cards
Kmart
Kraft Foods
S. C. Johnson & Son
Movie Gallery
Microsoft
MTV
Mary Kay
NutriSystem
Old Navy
IKEA
Sears
Pampers
Procter & Gamble
Target
Tide
Walt Disney Company
and PepsiCo

And... you know.... all of them have had crappy first quarters, dismal stock prices, and fired their CEO's all because of a boycott by a hate group with little to no relevance.

It's statements like the one you made FE that really make me question how much you think things trough. We agree on some things, but making that kind of correlation statement is just silly man!


One Million Moms is also known as a hate group, and I believe is almost entirely male run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 5:22am
Ego and need to dominate are human personal traits. They're not exclusive to any religion, race, gender, or sexual preference.

Most people I come across feel that their position on every subject is determined by some universal logic that is obviously more well adapted than your own and they'll spend countless hours trying to convince you to change your ideologies to match their own.

Turn on any talk show, liberal or conservative, and listen to the host mock, ridicule, and tear down the opposing party.

It's ironic, because as much Christians are criticized for being judgemental and hateful, theres plenty of judgement and hatred leveled at them.

In the end we all believe we're right on subjects that probably don't have a right or wrong. Hence why the law should be based on a singular universal logic, flawed though it may be, and followed regardless of other logic systems. I believe we refer to this as "separation of church and state."

Edited by stratoaxe - 01 July 2012 at 5:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 10:39am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 As they just fired their President for the massive drop in stock price which followed a horrific quarter which many have said  (but not in the media... weird...) was based on the boycott of so many moms, who is JCPenney's targer market. 

Perhaps.

Or, perhaps, it had to do with the enormous brand restructuring they did prior to the stock drop, including a new sales structure unlike the one customers were used to for 50+ years, new product direction, new marketing demographic to a younger audience to compete as a more affordable Forever 21 as opposed to another Sears, new store designs, etc.

Combine the internal cost of all that with the recession largely influencing the purchase ability of their new target demographic, and you're going to have a rough few quarters. 

Or maybe it was the hate group. Who knows. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2012 at 10:47am
I would be interested to see just how many members there are in OneMillionMoms.  Something tells me it falls well short of their name.
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