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How the private prison industry steered hip hop

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impulse418 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 April 2012 at 5:14pm
http://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html

I know the article cannot be authenticated, nor debunked.

Private prisons should have never got off the ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2012 at 10:38pm
Meeh, tin foil hat.

look to arizonia and to sherif joe to the reason why private prisons are filling.

gangster rap is not the cause of more crime, the vast gap between what the haves and have nothings in a very small geographical area is a greater cause.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2012 at 12:14am
Originally posted by God God wrote:

Meeh, tin foil hat.

look to arizonia and to sherif joe to the reason why private prisons are filling.

gangster rap is not the cause of more crime, the vast gap between what the haves and have nothings in a very small geographical area is a greater cause.


This, IMO.

First of all, I'm going to love reading Gatyr's input here, since IIRC he had decent knowledge of rap.

Secondly, this is the usual tin foil hat mistake of cause / correlation.

Gangster rap doesn't cause crime in poverty stricken neighborhoods, it simply reinforces the idea of its existence. It's simple marketing. An intro to sociology course will convey one major idea to you-low income generally means low education, high crime, and therefore high rates of revolving door prison sentences.

Which of those elements came first is the age old argument-does poverty breed crime, or does crime lead to poverty? For example, did junior resort to crime because his low income status forced him into it, or did his refusal to adapt to straight life lead to a life of poverty?

Without touching that argument, I think that we can all agree that poverty breeds crime and low education in the neighborhoods affected by it. So do you see low income, low education people lined up to buy Italian opera recordings, or is there a reason that "working man" music geberally evolved from simple blues? Artists have pandered to the lifestyle of the lowly as long as music has existed-just listen to Springsteen or any other rock band really crone about low income white man lifestyle when they themselves are millionaires and actually most low income white people probably don't even relate to their music.

That's how I view gangster rap-it glorifies a lifestyle that's within reach of the listener, even if that person has / won't ever experience it. Again, marketing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2012 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:



That's how I view gangster rap-it glorifies a lifestyle that's within reach of the listener, even if that person has / won't ever experience it. Again, marketing.

Ayup.

And to some extent, I wonder if it is cathartic. Listening to someone who came from the position you are in -- living in a poverty-stricken area, lack of a family, surrounded by crime, poor schools and a lack of easily seen future -- talk about that surrounding, it becomes an outlet for frustration, perhaps. 

It's an emotion that I think marketers in record labels take full advantage of. 

Not to mention, nobody is really making popular "gangster rap" anymore. It's not popular. I don't want to say that the growth of Kanye's "Graduation" beating the sales of 50-Cent's "Curtis" is one of the turning points in gangster rap falling to the wayside of popular hip-hop, but it is at least one of the more comparable ones. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2012 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


[QUOTE=stratoaxe>


That's how I view gangster rap-it glorifies a lifestyle that's within reach of the listener, even if that person has / won't ever experience it. Again, marketing.[/QUOTE>
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">Ayup.<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
And to some extent, I wonder if it is cathartic. Listening to someone who came from the position you are in -- living in a poverty-stricken area, lack of a family, surrounded by crime, poor schools and a lack of easily seen future -- talk about that surrounding, it becomes an outlet for frustration, perhaps. 

It's an emotion that I think marketers in record labels take full advantage of. 
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">
<div style="color: rgb0, 0, 0 !imant; ">Not to mention, nobody is really making popular "gangster rap" anymore. It's not popular. I don't want to say that the growth of Kanye's "Graduation" beating the sales of 50-Cent's "Curtis" is one of the turning points in gangster rap falling to the wayside of popular hip-hop, but it is at least one of the more comparable ones. 


I wonder how much of it is that anger just doesn't sell that well anymore in general? There's not a whole lot of angry music coming out anywhere, sans some hard rock stuff.(and that's a genre that's really been split between angry music and other topics too)

I don't know if it says something about the younger generations, or if it's a reflection of the populace as a whole during recession, etc. Just seemed interesting to think about.

As for rap reinforcing low-income behavior, no comment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2012 at 2:37pm
I stopped reading this and wrote it off as non credible at " I've simply decided to leave out names and all the details."

If something is really tat terrible and important to you, you would put your name out there to give it legitimacy.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2012 at 2:45pm
Never said the article was credible, nor true. What intrigued me was the correlation they used for the private prison industry.

We have no problems giving a drug addict 20 years, at $50,000 a year to house him.

But when it comes to rehabilitation, it is out of the question.

And the mere fact that they make it nearly impossible for people to bring 12 step meetings into the prison, is depressing in itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2012 at 3:56pm
I will agree that there are lobbiest that exist to lobby on behalf of the private prison industry for more laws and longer sentences, but inventing gangster rap is a waste of time.

since when are addicts being locked up for 20years for their addictions? it is the drug smugglers, kingpins, trafficeers, that get those types of sentences.

People tend to forget the fiction isnt just publishe in books, it is published on the internet as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2012 at 6:54pm
There are people serving life sentences for having a half oz of coke in the 80's.

Regardless of whether it be 1 year or 20, prison doesn't rehabilitate addicts. I might be there bottom, but if  they are let out back into society, with knowing the only solution they knew before. The will use that same solution, and in turn wind back up into the system. A revolving door.

They might not serve 20 years from one single charge, but most will wind up serving at least that in different increments. And with states with the 3 strike law, they could serve life for 3 small possessions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2012 at 8:37am
I am personally against the privatization of prisons, but not because of the alleged affect on rap music.  A lot of that music can come from a prison environment - it really has nothing to do how that prison was funded.  You will see and hear convicts rap in their cells, showers and the yard at any state funded prison as well.  Maybe even more so.

I would rather see the employees of state or federally run prisons get paid their full due versus a company executive at Geocorp or whatever private prison companies out there.  Working in a prison is stressful and not everyone can do it.  In order to get people to work there, they get paid more and get better benefits.  How else are you going to attract employees?  I've spoken to several police officers.  They for the most part don't like corrections officers because in some cases they aren't paid as well as they are.  But when I ask them if they would work inside a prison, 90% of the time I get responses of, "No way!" to "%&$* that!".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2012 at 10:18am
I know a lot of COs, as long as you treat the job as paycheck and nothing more. You will be fine. Its the guys who can't become a cop, but still want some sort of power. Are the ones that get shanked or their family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2012 at 2:14pm
Gonna have to disagree with your assertion of power trippers being the ones who get shanked.

First of all, as was mentioned by Stormy, jailors and cops are two completely different jobs. I think the vast majority of power tripping I've seen with CO's (and I know quite a few of them) is out of sheer necessity. Jail really is, in alot of ways, the way it's portrayed in movies and TV. If you can't establish both an authority and a relationship right off the bat you're not gonna make it.

Working in a jail is an enormously stressful job, regardless of your outlook on the situation. One of my good friends is about 10 years older than me and just quit working in a state prison, taking a huge paycut in the process to become a security guard. This guy is absolutely the most laid back, easy going person I know. He's the typical drink beer and relax Texas stereotype. Yet ten years in the Texas correctional system put him into a complete breakdown of stress. He really did get "shanked", and in fact charges brought against him for how he defended himself in that situation are part of why he quit.

The fact of the matter is that you're surrounded by, as a general rule, the scum of the earth (obviously I realize there are good people in prison, but let's be realistic here), rapists, murders, repeat offenders, so on and so forth, and your job is not only to babysit them, you also incur liability every time you communicate to them or touch them.

To be a jailor you have to be willing to be yelled it, spit on, cussed, assaulted, and in the end probably threatened with legal action for any way you handle that situation, all for crap pay.

In my opinion, coming from a family that includes cops AND jailors, the cop has the easier job. The cop's job may be riskier, but there's something about the environment of a jail that takes its toll on your mental state over the years, and that's aside from what it does to your physical state.

Absoutely a sewer job if there ever was one.

/rant
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2012 at 2:29pm
+1 to what Strato said. I would be willing to bet big money that it's not "power trippers" who get shanked. Guess who the inmates are going to target if they're going to riot/attempt a breakout/shank because they were told to/etc? It's not going to be the guy who they worry about night-sticking them in the face for coming to close.

Prison inmates, as a whole, are unbelievably adept at spotting weakness and attempting to exploit it. You don't EVER want to be perceived as the **edited** in the armor.

I'm trying to find a job in LE right now. Sure, there are some guys in CO positions because they couldn't become a police officer, but you still couldn't pay me to take that job.

As to who has a more dangerous job? Apples and oranges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2012 at 2:52pm
Most of the jailors are decent people, but there are a few of them that are not better than the people they are watching. I could never be a jailor or prison guard. As Strato said, TDC ties the guards hands behind their back when it comes to using force, and jailors don't make near enough money to put up with the BS.
Face it guys, common sense is a form of wealth and we're surrounded by poverty.-Strato
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2012 at 8:17pm
I never said one needs to be a push over, but you have to treat the inmates, as human beings.

If you treat someone with respect, they will more than likely return it. Even in prison.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2012 at 12:43am
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

I never said one needs to be a push over, but you have to treat the inmates, as human beings.

If you treat someone with respect, they will more than likely return it. Even in prison.
Very true.  There are exceptions especially when dealing with those that have some kind of mental illness issues.  Respect is fleeting with many in that category.
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