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We Stopped Dreaming

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Rofl_Mao View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 March 2012 at 4:25am


Ignore the "inspirational" music. What he says has some truth.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 4:51am
That man is awesome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 8:10am
Don't worry, weapon development is alive and well.

We need to get our kids to support the current conflicts. And encourage them to do well in school. For they might design the next drone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 8:46am
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Don't worry, weapon development is alive and well.

We need to get our kids to support the current conflicts. And encourage them to do well in school. For they might design the next drone.


Weapon development is not alive and well. Maybe for small arms and robotics, but not for future aerospace technology. That technology is what solves todays problems on Earth.There has been a push for privately funded technology, but it is all for-profit and private technology simply cannot do what government funded technology does. The NASA got us to the moon in 8 years; they can do the impossible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 9:00am
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Don't worry, weapon development is alive and well.

We need to get our kids to support the current conflicts. And encourage them to do well in school. For they might design the next drone.


Weapon development is not alive and well. Maybe for small arms and robotics, but not for future aerospace technology. That technology is what solves todays problems on Earth.There has been a push for privately funded technology, but it is all for-profit and private technology simply cannot do what government funded technology does. The NASA got us to the moon in 8 years; they can do the impossible.


NASA is an inefficient monster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 9:31am
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Don't worry, weapon development is alive and well.

We need to get our kids to support the current conflicts. And encourage them to do well in school. For they might design the next drone.


Weapon development is not alive and well. Maybe for small arms and robotics, but not for future aerospace technology. That technology is what solves todays problems on Earth.There has been a push for privately funded technology, but it is all for-profit and private technology simply cannot do what government funded technology does. The NASA got us to the moon in 8 years; they can do the impossible.


NASA is an inefficient monster.


How so? I'd say they've done a lot given the budget they have/had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:


Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:


Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:


Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Don't worry, weapon development is alive and well.

We need to get our kids to support the current conflicts. And encourage them to do well in school. For they might design the next drone.


Weapon development is not alive and well. Maybe for small arms and robotics, but not for future aerospace technology. That technology is what solves todays problems on Earth.There has been a push for privately funded technology, but it is all for-profit and private technology simply cannot do what government funded technology does. The NASA got us to the moon in 8 years; they can do the impossible.


NASA is an inefficient monster.


How so? I'd say they've done a lot given the budget they have/had.



You'd be wrong then. It was an over-funded ex-Nazi playground for a long time. In fact, until the Mars Sojourner program in the early/mid 1990's NASA had pretty much squandered all their money on expensive and unsustainable programs like the Space Shuttle. There was no economic advantage to using a reusable orbiter, at all. We should have stuck with the Saturn V rocket system and upgraded it instead of spending all that money just to show the world we could make something that they weren't even really interested in.

In fact, the budget cuts that NASA has faced since the Bush Sr. / Clinton years have proved to do more to spur innovation than the previous 30-40 years combined.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 10:47am
Eh, you guys can say what you want, but I still think that science should be funded more than it is right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 11:48am
I don't know about NASA, but he is right about how we went to space and the moon out of fear, and that space race was very much so a precursor for the computing revolution that began in the 80s. 

Honestly, I believe investing in a manned mission to Mars, or the asteroid belt, or some other place far beyond our reach now will do much more for our economy then anything else we could spend that money on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 11:52am
^^^  That.  In many cases the advances made in failed attempts to meet difficult goals are still quite worthwhile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 11:59am
Long overdue for a new space pen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

How so? I'd say they've done a lot given the budget they have/had.
Adjusted for inflation NASA has had a total budjet since 1958 of over 758 Billion dollars. Averages to around 14.3 billion per year. I think anyone could do a lot with this sort of financial resources per year. I would venture a guess that private companies could do considerably more with less than 1/2 this amount of funding per year.
 
 


Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 March 2012 at 12:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 12:22pm

Great music for sure.

So here we go with the same song and dance of "It's the people's fault.  Feel guilty and give up more tax dollars ok".

It's not the peoples fault.  Quit misusing tax dollars and laundering money for your own personal gain ok?

Sent from a phone booth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

  I would venture a guess that private companies could do considerably more with less than 1/2 this amount of funding per year.


But they don't, which is largely why NASA still exists. 

Capitalism is awesome at a lot of things, but expanding knowledge and exploration for the sake of doing it is just not really one of those things. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

  I would venture a guess that private companies could do considerably more with less than 1/2 this amount of funding per year.


But they don't, which is largely why NASA still exists. 

Capitalism is awesome at a lot of things, but expanding knowledge and exploration for the sake of doing it is just not really one of those things. 


Thats the problem with private funding. If theres no money to be made then the private sector will not do a mission.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

  I would venture a guess that private companies could do considerably more with less than 1/2 this amount of funding per year.


But they don't, which is largely why NASA still exists. 

Capitalism is awesome at a lot of things, but expanding knowledge and exploration for the sake of doing it is just not really one of those things. 
Wasnt my arguing point. ROFL made the comment that they acheived so much with the funding they had. It came across as amazement. My argument was whether someone could do the same with less, not whether it would be done. While it boggles the mind at how much money has been spent, my argument isnt whether it should, but that the results are not that amazing considering massive amount of money that has been funneled into it. While I by no means can enumerate the advances gained by this spending by heart, I have confidence in saying the it isnt really that amazing if you compare advances gained with dollars spent. Velcro and Tang are awesome, but....
 
I think some of this leads to the problems we now have with people not endorsing the money being spent. Especially in tough times, people start questioning the spending of billions of dollars per year on what still seems to be far off fantasy. ITT most people at the outset of all of this expected us to have colonies on the Moon and regular visits to Mars by now. Instead, we have a now defunct program resulting in museum peices and we don't really seem any closer to Star Trek than we were in the 70's.
 
We are to a certain degree a results oriented society. We want to see advances, not just more of the same.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 March 2012 at 1:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 1:33pm
Quote My argument was whether someone could do the same with less, not whether it would be done. 

Ah, roger 10-4. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 2:55pm
My argument isn't even that capitalistic models could do better than NASA did as far as research goes, but rather that NASA spent unwisely for many, many years. Instead of using the Redstone or other ICBM based rocket which had been proven capable already, NASA insisted on moving forward with the Vanguard series of rockets which failed miserably. Only 3 out of 11 launches successfully put anything into orbit. That's $95,384,676.60 just in the cost of the rockets alone (no satellites, etc) which were wasted when we could have succeeded (and even beat the Russians) using Redstone or a similar vehicle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 2:56pm
I did some additional thinking on this. I know, scary. Shouldn't a better statement be "our dreams got crushed?" While I am not a rocket scientist or astro physicist, I am a minor space geek. I watch shows about whether warp drive propulsion, phasers, light speed travel, artificial gravity and other Star Trek fantasy is ever going to be a reality and most often it seems that on the big questions, the answer is "probably not." When we entered the space race, i would say most people were pretty ignorant, probably still true, about the possibilities of space travel and everyone thought we would be living on Mars by now and have the capability to travel to other galaxies maybe by the end of the century. I remember at the end of the Space Mountain ride at Disney World, back in the 70's and 80's,  there used to be an area sponsored by RCA that was called " The World of Tomorrow" IIRC that had us all living in space and driving jet cars and such. What a joke that seems now.
 
Are we finally facing the truths that the likelihood of us ever venturing beyond our solar system ala Star Trek is a total and absolute fantasy no matter how much money we throw at it? Is it because we have become more educated about space travel and realize it is neither equitable or really possible to do in a realistic timeframe? When we were spending buttloads of money to get men onto the moon, we thought that was just a first step. I would bet that most people saw us using that as a stepping stone to venturing farther. Now do we know that was probably the last step and don't understand or approve the continued spending of billions upon billions of dollars per year without any end game result? I love the idea of the human race spreading out and colonizing the universe, exploring strange new worlds and going where no man has gone before, but at what cost and will it ever happen?


Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 March 2012 at 3:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:01pm
The idea of colonizing other planets is a hilarious farce, the human race will likely never reach beyond our own solar system, and why would we even want to go to the other planets here? Nothing but barren wastes. But thanks to science fiction we have an intense yearning to waste untold sums of money on those dreams instead of attempting to make it possible for all of humanity to live equitably here.
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