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We Stopped Dreaming

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choopie911 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 6:22pm
Science, and space exploration, should have INCREASED funding if anything. The NASA budget is a crumb off of America's plate yet they just want to keep cutting it down.

It's sad sometimes to think about where we COULD be, and where we are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 6:40pm
Canadians should feel free to kick in a few billion a year anytime they want.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 6:54pm
I found this link regarding space debris interesting

Space debris pics

Maybe we can start a colony on Uranus and fix that planet too.

Edited by Lightningbolt - 12 March 2012 at 7:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

Coming soon: The moon, brought to you by Viagra.


/Uranus joke
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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 7:49pm
Can somebody please address the spam filter. I've just typed up a xxxxxxxxx thesis-length response and there's something in there that keeps kicking it out.

Edited by Mack - 12 March 2012 at 9:39pm
<Removed overly wide sig. Tsk, you know better.>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

The idea of colonizing other planets is a hilarious farce, the human race will likely never reach beyond our own solar system, and why would we even want to go to the other planets here? Nothing but barren wastes.


The survival of humanity is among the stars. I'm not talking about a million years from now, or even two million, but within the next thousand years, there simply will not be enough land, enough resources, enough of anything for the human race to continue to not only grow, but survive outright. Your classification of other worlds in our solar system being "barren wastes" is so far off the mark, one would think you're stuck back in the "viking" days of exploration when grainy stills of Mars were sent back from those landers showing what appeared to be a dingy, waterless waste which we have since found out is an incredible planet with the necessary elements to support life. The same can be said of the moons of Jupiter and Saturn.
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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 7:50pm

What is truly important about going to other bodies within our own solar system is that we will need to tap the resources available out there to continue our own existence and advancement. Not only will we need the room, be it off-world colonies or cities in orbit, but we will need to expand the well from which we draw our resources. We only have finite amounts of rare elements and many, many other important elements to continue to advance our technology. It is estimated that some of the asteroids in our own belt, just between us and Mars, hold more of these elements in their relatively small bodies, than our entire planet does in its crust.


It is impossible to know exactly what our future holds, but we have to remember that we actaully have a few billion years to figure out faster than light travel in some form or another to get us to other systems and other planets. This would allow us to continue on past the death of our own life-giving star. To think that we are at the top of our game in physics and technology, to be able to say that interstellar travel is "farcical" is in and of itself a farce.

Where ND-T errs in his speech is to assume that during the space race, and even after the moon landings, the general public felt that NASA and space exploration were worth funding. They almost never did. The reality is that the only time in public record that opinion swung to the side of "the funding is worth the end result" was the year that we landed on the moon for the first time. All years leading up to, and following the initial moon landing point to less than half the population of the US supporting the costs associated with such scientific strides. We've simply been sold the myth of the supportive nation wanting to beat the Ruskies to the moon. In reality, we'd probably have never had to do so if we'd simply used a Redstone missile to put a satellite into orbit far earlier than the Russians with their R7 rocket family which were (and still are) essentially modified ICBMs.

Degrasse-Tyson likes to talk about how we used to "Dream" when the reality is that he draws on commercial marketing ploys rather than scientific advances of the day. In reality, commercialization did more to fuel his idyllic "dream" than any cold, hard science from JPL or Goddard.

Also, the music is from "Una Mattina" by Ludvico Einauldi who is a fantastic pianist and composer. I own the album. It is fantastic.

Edited by tallen702 - 12 March 2012 at 7:54pm
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tallen702 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 7:55pm
The word "Lit.erally" screws it all up....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

within the next thousand years, there simply will not be enough land, enough resources, enough of anything for the human race to continue to not only grow, 
Of course there is some school of thought that something will happen before this time to thin the herd.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 8:46pm
I just wonder if we'll all kill ourselves and the planet before we really figure out how to get off of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 8:58pm
Yeah we're fixing it real good right now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:

I just wonder if we'll all kill ourselves and the planet before we really figure out how to get off of it.


I don't doubt that a rather large "cull" will occur before too much longer (in a geological time-scale sense) but the chances of the entire human race being wiped out by our own devices is slim when you actually sit down and think about it. By the end of the last ice age, the estimated human population for the whole planet was only around 20,000. That's less than half the population of the very small city I grew up in. Fairbanks, Alaska has more permanent residents than that by over 10k. If humankind was able to bounce back from that with nothing more than neolithic tools and hunter-gatherer lifestyles, I'm pretty sure we're resilient enough to deal with most of what could be thrown at us, especially given the wealth of shared knowledge we now possess not only online, but in good old-fashioned books.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 10:26pm
I'm more interested in finding other planets that are habitable. Not because I think we will get there, that would take a group of people populating themselves and training children strictly how to colonize a different planet, but to find other life forms. It's not realistic to send people past our solar system. Even if man were to go into the deep part of our solar system, they would be gone for so long they would be extremely disconnected. I believe it is fully possible to go to farther planets but it would be costly. If we could find other life, it would be the biggest discovery ever. I'm sure the churches would be freaking out. As a Christian, I believe there is other life. How could we be the only ones when there are so many possibilities? We have discovered some similar Earth planets, but they are always too hot and life wouldn't be possible. We just have to keep looking. It doesn't help we can barely observe other planets until they pass I front of their host star.

I love being a physics major with an astronomy minor.

SandMan:"oh yeah, sporx is totally hot"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 8:11am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

* I see you edited it. Your original time was only 20 years. My point was that we have stalled it seems shortly after reaching the moon.


Sorry about that, but I get what your saying for the relative short term, but I'm trying to talk long-term.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 8:17am
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

* I see you edited it. Your original time was only 20 years. My point was that we have stalled it seems shortly after reaching the moon.


Sorry about that, but I get what your saying for the relative short term, but I'm trying to talk long-term.
Right, and long term, we look to have stalled. There is a massive technology jump from shooting big bottle rockets up into space and being capable of warping time and space to be able to reach other planets within a matter of days/months. We may have come a long ways, but we are not even close to something on this scale. Relatively speaking, we are still using rocks to clean pelts compared to where we need to be for this type of technology.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 9:51am
So, because we have "stalled," we should just keep cutting funding until we have nothing left to go on and rely on for-profit companies that have no interest in furthering humanity other than their own interests?

 Even if private companies wanted to go to new planets (or hell, even the moon (which is completely possible)) to mine their resources, it would cost way more than any company could afford or be willing to risk. And that is the major problem that we have with privatizing the space industry. I'm not trying to say we should travel through space and time, which I agree is well beyond our grasp for the next couple hundred years, I'm saying that we should be able to reach within our own solar system in a relatively short time - if we put the effort into it.

Edit: punctuation and formatting


Edited by Rofl_Mao - 13 March 2012 at 9:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 9:54am
I mean this in the best possible way, but can the Canadian contengency please stop using the term "we" when referring to money that the U.S. Taxpayers put towards NASA and space exploration?
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

So, because we have "stalled," we should just keep cutting funding until we have nothing left to go on and rely on for-profit companies that have no interest in furthering humanity other than their own interests?

 Even if private companies wanted to go to new planets (or hell, even the moon (which is completely possible)) to mine their resources, it would cost way more than any company could afford or be willing to risk. And that is the major problem that we have with privatizing the space industry. I'm not trying to say we should travel through space and time, which I agree is well beyond our grasp for the next couple hundred years, I'm saying that we should be able to reach within our own solar system in a relatively short time - if we put the effort into it.

Edit: punctuation and formatting

Gubmint has a way of funding the private sector when it benefits them.  

What happened to Johny Private Sector Moonshot from England?



Edited by Lightningbolt - 13 March 2012 at 10:01am
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Mack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 10:00am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I mean this in the best possible way, but can the Canadian contengency please stop using the term "we" when referring to money that the U.S. Taxpayers put towards NASA and space exploration?


That was the Royal "We."

Edited by Mack - 13 March 2012 at 10:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2012 at 10:02am
Looking more into it, there is some sort of Canadian Space Agency, but funding is less that 1/3 of a billion per year.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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