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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I watch shows about whether warp drive propulsion, phasers, light speed travel, artificial gravity and other Star Trek fantasy is ever going to be a reality and most often it seems that on the big questions, the answer is "probably not."


I'm going to take a minor detour on this forum along a path called "Why Star Trek Fails" courtesy of OPBN's comments above.  Now, don't get me wrong, I liked all of the various Star Trek series; even Voyager and Enterprise.  But I just can't see people being able to live in the world that Roddenberry envisioned.

My two main points I always come back to when thinking about this:

  • No poverty, hunger, etc. (Essentially a utopian future as far as Earth is concerned.)  My question would be what happened to all the slackers?  You know, the guys that would rather play video games than join Star Fleet and make the Universe a better place.  Did they all suddenly become more mature or are they still sponging off of society?  Or were they eliminated for the common good of the rest of Earth civilization?
  • Phasers.  The military will never have phasers.  The urge to misuse the stun setting would just be too great and eventually someone would lose an eye.  (Or get accidentally vaporized.)

I've thought of other examples at times, but these are my main ones.  Feel free to add your own.



Edited by Mack - 12 March 2012 at 3:09pm
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This is Bologna Stuff.  I had a dream last night.  Or is it talking about while we're awake?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:15pm
Where did the misconception come from, that the moon race. Was highly favored by the public?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BARREL BREAK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:15pm
 Star Trek is supposed to take place in a post-scarcity society, sponging off society is a meaningless idea in such a world. In the absence of scarcity crime and the need for a police force disappear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

  • No poverty, hunger, etc. (Essentially a utopian future as far as Earth is concerned.)  My question would be what happened to all the slackers?  You know, the guys that would rather play video games than join Star Fleet and make the Universe a better place.  Did they all suddenly become more mature or are they still sponging off of society?  Or were they eliminated for the common good of the rest of Earth civilization?
They still had them, they were called the Pakleds.  Actually the latest movie kind of contradicts the utopian society in that Kirk starts out the movie as a drifter of sorts.

Originally posted by Mack the benevolent Mod Mack the benevolent Mod wrote:

  • Phasers.  The military will never have phasers.  The urge to misuse the stun setting would just be too great and eventually someone would lose an eye.  (Or get accidentally vaporized.)

Or using them as space age ruffies



Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 March 2012 at 3:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:16pm

Is this one step closer or something completely different?



 Taken from DiscoverMagazine.com
9: Teleportation Gets Real

by Kathy A. Svitil
From the January 2005 issue; published online January 3, 2005


The science-fiction fantasy of teleportation became reality this year, at least on the atomic scale. In independent papers published in June, groups led by experimental physicists Rainer Blatt of the University of Innsbruck in Austria and by David Wineland of the National Institute of Standards and Technology in Boulder, Colorado, described using laser pulses to transfer information from one atom to another in a different location. Although their methods were slightly different, the results were exactly the same: The second atom became completely indistinguishable from the first, just as if information had disappeared from one atom and appeared at the other one without traveling through the space in between.

The distances involved are slight—less than 200 micrometers—and the technique works only for information about the atoms, not the atoms themselves, making it a far cry from the images conjured up by Star Trek’s transporter. Nevertheless, quantum teleportation is a giant step toward one of physicists’ most ambitious goals: building a quantum computer—an ultrafast, supersecure, huge-memory number-crunching device that uses atomic particles instead of transistors to retain and process information.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:29pm

No stun option?

Taken from FoxNews.com

One if by land … lasers if by sea.

A futuristic laser mounted on a speeding cruiser successfully blasted a bobbing, weaving boat from the waters of the Pacific Ocean -- the first test at sea of such a gun and a fresh milestone in the Navy's quest to reoutfit the fleet with a host of laser weapons, the Navy announced Friday.

"We were able to have a destructive effect on a high-speed cruising target," chief of Naval research Rear Adm. Nevin Carr told FoxNews.com.

The test occurred Wednesday near San Nicholas Island, off the coast of Central California in the Pacific Ocean test range, from a laser gun mounted onto the deck of the Navy’s self-defense test ship, former USS Paul Foster.

In a video of the event, the small boat can be seen catching fire and ultimately bursting into flames, a conflagration caused by the navy's distant gun. Some details of the event were classified, including the exact range of the shot, but Carr could provide some information: "We're talking miles, not yards," Carr said.

The Navy, Army and other armed forces have been working to incorporate so called "directed energy" laser weapons in a range of new guns, from tank-mounted blasters to guns on planes or unmanned balloons. But this marks the first test of a laser weapon at sea -- and proof that laser rifles are no mere Buck Rogers daydream.

“This is the first time a [high-energy-laser], at these power levels, has been put on a Navy ship, powered from that ship and used to defeat a target at-range in a maritime environment,” said Peter Morrison, program officer for the Office of Naval Research.

"The Navy is moving strongly towards directed energy," Carr told FoxNews.com.

The weapon, called the maritime laser demonstrator, was built in partnership with Northrop Grumman. It focused 15 kilowatts of energy by concentrating it through a solid medium -- hence the name.

"We call them solid state because they use a medium, usually something like a crystal," explained Quentin Saulter, the research office's program officer. It was used in Wednesday's demonstration against a small boat, but Carr told FoxNews.com that this and other types of laser weaponry could be equally effective against planes and even targets on shore.

"To begin to address a cruise missile threat, we'd need to get up to hundreds of kilowatts," Carr said.

The Navy is working on just such a gun of course.

Called the FEL -- for free-electron laser, which doesn't use a gain medium and is therefore more versatile -- it was tested in February consuming a blistering 500 kilovolts of energy, producing a supercharged electron beam that can burn through 20 feet of steel per second.

The FEL will easily get into the kilowatt power range. It can also be easily tuned as well, to adjust to environmental conditions, another reason it is more flexible than the fixed wavelength of solid-state laser. But the Navy doesn't expect to release megawatt-class FEL weapons until the 2020s; among the obstacles yet to be overcome, the incredible power requirements of the FEL weapons require careful consideration.

Also in the Navy's futuristic arsenal: a so-called "rail gun," which uses an electomagnetic current to accelerate a non-explosive bullet at several times the speed of sound.

Railguns are even further off in the distance, possibly by 2025, the Navy has said. But the demonstration of the maritime laser demonstrator this week proves that some laser weapons are just around the corner: Northrop Grumman experts aim to have the final product ready by June of 2014.

"One of the things that amazes me about this business is that the future is getting closer every day," Carr said.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

Where did the misconception come from, that the moon race. Was highly favored by the public?


Movies? I think it is rather common knowledge that the race to the moon wasn't all that well received publicl at the time, and een after a sucessful landing, public enthusiasm was less than stell.(harhar)

INb4 you turn this into a government conspiracy too.



This post brought to you by two very dialated eyes. I can't see my screen, so I imagine itsrather roughshod.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:38pm

Originally posted by LB LB wrote:

Interesting lazer boat story
Stupid question, but wouldn't an easy defense to this be a big mirror? And why was "sharks with lasers on their heads" the first thing to come to mind?



Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 March 2012 at 3:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:41pm
I believe it is ignorant to think that the things of the future will never happen. Did you ever realize that people in the 19th century would scoff at the idea of manned flight? Sure things seem impossible right now, but look at how far we have come in just the past 100 years.

Edited by Rofl_Mao - 12 March 2012 at 3:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by LB LB wrote:

Interesting lazer boat story
Stupid question, but wouldn't an easy defense to this be a big mirror? And why was "sharks with lasers on their heads" the first thing to come to mind?



I think unless the entire vessel was a mirror, that thing is going to burst into flames because of the amount of energy being tossed at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

I believe it is ignorant to think that the things of the future will never happen. Did you ever realize that people in the 19th century would scoff at the idea of manned flight? Sure things seem impossible right now, but look at how far we have come in just the past 100 years.
How far have we come in 20 years?* I was in college 20 years ago and it had been over 20 years since we landed on the moon.  Let's see, we let our fleet of space shuttles go out of commission. We've landed space probes on Mars and sent back pictures. Not seeing a lot else besides computer technology IMO.
 
It's actually the lack of ignorance saying that some things are very unlikely to happen. I am not basing it off of my own knowledge, which is limited I assure you, I base it off of several things I have read and TV shows watched dedicated to the discussion of the ideas of warp drives/space travel etc. Even at the speed of light, which it's debated is even possible to acheive, you are looking at many years of travel to reach the closest solar system. IIRC, to reach one that has a planet that we THINK may be able to sustain life is farther than that. Without lightspeed travel, it would take lifetimes.
 
* I see you edited it. Your original time was only 20 years. My point was that we have stalled it seems shortly after reaching the moon.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 March 2012 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by LB LB wrote:

Interesting lazer boat story
Stupid question, but wouldn't an easy defense to this be a big mirror? And why was "sharks with lasers on their heads" the first thing to come to mind?



I think unless the entire vessel was a mirror, that thing is going to burst into flames because of the amount of energy being tossed at it.
Not impossible to do. I've seen freaking chrome cars before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by BARREL BREAK BARREL BREAK wrote:

The idea of colonizing other planets is a hilarious farce, the human race will likely never reach beyond our own solar system, and why would we even want to go to the other planets here? Nothing but barren wastes. But thanks to science fiction we have an intense yearning to waste untold sums of money on those dreams instead of attempting to make it possible for all of humanity to live equitably here.

But there are motivating reasons to do these things.

Aside from the blatantly obvious one of our Earth won't be here forever, and spreading Humanity out is the next natural  progression to preserve ourselves, there are countless economic benefits. Minerals and materials naturally occurring off of Earth in quantities that will be practical to mine, for starters.There's the potential for discovering new lifeforms (intelligent or otherwise) which could open up new understandings of biology and chemistry. The rise of entirely new industries centered around space, exploration, manufacturing, and research.The list goes on and on.

But let's not even consider travel outside of this solar system. Let's just look at economic opportunities that exist. The asteroid belt beyond Mars contains a massive amount of the leftover materials from the formation of our sun. Aside from Hydrogen, Oxygen and Water, heavy metals such as gold, platinum, nickle, iron and virtually any other metal in industry occur in obscene quantities (where do you think these metals on Earth originally came from?). Some estimates say that a single 1km diameter asteroid could have a value in the trillions of dollars. 

Aside from mining in space, we can build in space as well. Zero gravity creates many challenges, but it removes many others as well. One instance I can think of is semiconductor manufacturing. The average modern day fab costs billions of dollars and its equipment becomes antiquated in only a few years. Much of that cost is due to the equipment, but a substantial amount goes into developing clean rooms and dealing with defects in silicon due to uncontrollable phenomenon. Move your fab to space, and provide appropriate cosmic shielding and you're now building in the largest cleanroom ever.

Not to mention pollution isn't an issue in space. If we want to manufacture dirty or dangerous substances, what better place then space?

Heck, lets address some other concerns while we're at it. Power and Energy are big items today. Solar power has long been popular as a clean option, but it's only available for portions of the day. What if we put solar arrays in space? Or even nuclear reactors in space (see dirty and dangerous above). We can beam power down in microwaves, or maybe even resonant induction. Cheap, clean, reliable power.

The biggest obstacle in space isn't distance or time, we can deal with those items later, it's getting into space to begin with. We've always used rockets, but they are terribly inefficient. To reach space, our rockets have to hit 7.8km/s. By comparison, a bullet might travel around 4300km/hour. To achieve this, we use multistage rockets to provide that extra boost. This is the equivalent of firing a bullet, then that bullet containing a gun that fires another bullet. That third bullet contains still another gun that fires yet another bullet. This process would have to repeat itself 8 times to hit our required escape velocity.

That's where proposals such as space elevators come into play. These could conceivably make moving people and materials into and out of orbit economical. The trouble is these things require materials that just don't exist yet. But putting money into programs like NASA or even other research agencies could make space travel practical.

So, no, it's not a waste of money.


Edited by Darur - 12 March 2012 at 3:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 4:02pm
It would have to become vastly cheaper to get things into space to make space mining even remotely profitable. I remember this being covered. Also, value is based on current prices. Much like oil, once you dump 100 million tons of gold onto the market, the price is going to bottom out, thus lowering the value and making it even less interesting to spend billions of dollars building space ships to mine for gold.  It's not impossible, but you have to weigh the value of the asset against what it costs to source it.

Edited by oldpbnoob - 12 March 2012 at 4:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 4:09pm
The fact that astronauts are still strapping  gas cans and a giant bottle rockets to their rear ends to explore space is laughable.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 4:42pm
Now, I'm no space expert, but I'm pretty sure there is a ton of dust in space.  Even if there isn't, the amount of debris we have thrown up there has made it anything but a clean room.  Also, I really doubt pollution wouldn't be a problem.  Remember, it has to come down sometime. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 March 2012 at 4:53pm

It took me a while, but it dawned on me why Darurs post bothered me. All these situations, aside from saving mankind, are activities that should be carried out by private enterprises. Neither mining, nor semiconductor manufacturing are activites that should be carried out by the government. If mining is such a tremendous and profitable activity, let the private sector have at it.  Your post is actually a near perfect support for reasons why space exploration should be privatized.

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Coming soon: The moon, brought to you by Viagra.
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