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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2012 at 1:54pm
My M&P .40 has fired somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 rounds without a malfunction of any kind.  It is also quite accurate for a handgun.  I recommend it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2012 at 4:40pm


Me and the girlfriend shooting. She's got a .22 of some sort, I'm shooting my sister's Howa. Good times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2012 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

So, can anyone tell me why Browning Hi-Powers (including clones) are so damned expensive right now?

The Browning name is on it, so its going to be expensive.  As far as clones, which ones are expensive?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2012 at 7:27pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

There is nothing wrong with using a target pistol for self defence. Lethal force is lethal force. A decent lawyer would make it a positive - increased accuracy means less liability.

I was also going to say avoid the smaller pistols for range work, but the M&P9c is larger than the Glock 26 or such sized guns. It is only marginally smaller than the Glock 19. It is sort of a combination of both. The Glock 19 is the smallest "range gun" I'd say. The M&P 9C seems to be what I wanted when I bought a Glock 26. My G26 now has a rail on it and can carry a light.

As for 9x19mm .vs .40 .vs .45... There is nothing the .40 will do that a modern 9x19mm won't do, except shoot accurately out of a M&P.

Outside of 15m, closer to 25m the 9x19mm M&P's are printing all over the place. Mostly when you use the 147grain rounds. I don't know the cause, some have said it is to do with the slide unlocking a mite early, but I have no proof of that. Some aren't and some are really bad.

This problem is not around in the .40 and .45 versions of the M&P.

I do not know if it affects the 9mm Compacts.

KBK

Lawyers in my town which was the most dangerous city in the United States last year on two different statistics says otherwise.  I realized you sold the 1911 after I posted but left it up because this applies to all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2012 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:


Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

So, can anyone tell me why Browning Hi-Powers (including clones) are so damned expensive right now?


The Browning name is on it, so its going to be expensive. †As far as clones, which ones are expensive?


Take your pick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2012 at 8:19pm
FN built the original, its hardly a clone haha.  But those have been the going prices on HiPowers for a little while now... you gotta pay money for quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 January 2012 at 8:44pm
Gatyr that 22 looks like a marlin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 12:01am
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:


Lawyers in my town which was the most dangerous city in the United States last year on two different statistics says otherwise. †I realized you sold the 1911 after I posted but left it up because this applies to all.



You need better lawyers. Are there any that specialize in self defence shootings? Get their number.

Lethal force = lethal force. If you were correct in using a gun it doesn't make a difference if it was a .17HMR or a .600 Nitro.

Like I said any semi decent lawyer can turn a target pistol into a positive. More accurate = better shot placement. More consistent grouping. Less liability.

There is also very little "target" about a 1911, a weapon that has been killing people for a century.

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 10 January 2012 at 12:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deadeye007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 1:12am
I think you are mistaking criminal law for civil law. As Kayback mentioned, lethal force is lethal force no matter what is used.
Some scum bag ambulance chaser might try to use the weapon type in a civil suit, but it has no bearing in criminal court (if it was legal).

One drawback of using a high dollar gun for self defense is letting it set in an evidence shelf at a police station for one or two years if you do have to use it. But then again, if that's the gun you can best defend yourself with use it. Your own safety is worth more anyway.


**oops that was supposed to be a reply to lightningbolt**

Edited by deadeye007 - 10 January 2012 at 1:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 1:34am
If you are looking at spending $400, I would probably just wait around for a nice 1911 deal and have someone knowledgeable look at it, or buy a new bubba-free SA 1911. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 3:04am
What's with the "No rapid fire - Think Safety" sign in the pic Gyter? What's their definition of rapid?

And how is it linked to safety?

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 6:25am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:


Lawyers in my town which was the most dangerous city in the United States last year on two different statistics says otherwise.  I realized you sold the 1911 after I posted but left it up because this applies to all.



You need better lawyers. Are there any that specialize in self defence shootings? Get their number.

Lethal force = lethal force. If you were correct in using a gun it doesn't make a difference if it was a .17HMR or a .600 Nitro.

Like I said any semi decent lawyer can turn a target pistol into a positive. More accurate = better shot placement. More consistent grouping. Less liability.

There is also very little "target" about a 1911, a weapon that has been killing people for a century.

KBK

You want the number to an attorneys office so you can call them and challenge their knowledge of their profession? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 8:33am
No I mean have them on speed dial.

You know the "you get one phonecall" stuff? Quite honestly if you get to know a lawyer before you need to call him at 3am and explain why you blasted someone's brains over the wall it'll be better for you.

I have a bunch of lawyer friends who would be next to worthless. They are conveyencers, divorce lawyers and contract lawyers. Part of my getting home safely kit is the number of a very good defense lawyer who specializes in self defense shootings and other gun related laws. I know him quite well and have used his services with regards to licensing. Make sure the guy you are gonna trust your freedom to is someone you can work with.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 9:03am
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

FN built the original, its hardly a clone haha. †But those have been the going prices on HiPowers for a little while now... you gotta pay money for quality.


Actually, there's a FEG clone in there that interests me. I may have to bid on it despite the wifey's ban on my purchases until we buy a house. My PA-63 from them has performed very well despite its tendency to make the webbing between your thumb and index finger go numb after 2 mags.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skillet42565 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 9:35am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

FN built the original, its hardly a clone haha.  But those have been the going prices on HiPowers for a little while now... you gotta pay money for quality.


Actually, there's a FEG clone in there that interests me. I may have to bid on it despite the wifey's ban on my purchases until we buy a house. My PA-63 from them has performed very well despite its tendency to make the webbing between your thumb and index finger go numb after 2 mags.

I hear good things about FEG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 9:55am
My FN only cost 400. Pretty darn happy about that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 10:05am

KBK.  The NRA hired a prosecuting attorneys office that specializes in these cases to lecture for a day.  This is where my info comes from.

It's their belief that the judge will view you as a professional killer if you have to modify your gun/ammo to kill someone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

What's with the "No rapid fire - Think Safety" sign in the pic Gyter? What's their definition of rapid?

And how is it linked to safety?

KBK


Rapid fire is usually considered 2 rounds or more, per second.

I'll never visit a range with such rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

KBK. †The NRA hired a prosecuting attorneys office that specializes in these cases to lecture for a day. †This is where my info comes from.

It's their belief that the judge will view you as a professional killer if you have to modify your gun/ammo to kill someone.



Judge won't care, but Jury will. That's the big sticking point. Prosecutors will try to paint you as some vigilante running around with a a weapon that is somehow "more dangerous/deadly" because you've modified it for competition. It's the whole "machine gun murder" bit that the media gets wrong all the time. Number of registered (read LEGAL) machine guns used in crimes since 1938? Two. And one of those was by a police officer using a department weapon to carry out a contract kill. But the gun-ignorant part of the public and media are always quick to refer to the need to ban automatic weapons and machine guns, or call a semi-auto a "machine gun" because it sounds dangerous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 January 2012 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:


Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by Skillet42565 Skillet42565 wrote:

FN built the original, its hardly a clone haha. †But those have been the going prices on HiPowers for a little while now... you gotta pay money for quality.


Actually, there's a FEG clone in there that interests me. I may have to bid on it despite the wifey's ban on my purchases until we buy a house. My PA-63 from them has performed very well despite its tendency to make the webbing between your thumb and index finger go numb after 2 mags.


I hear good things about FEG.


Like I said, my PA-63 is the shizzle. Small, compact PPK clone in 9x18 so it's got more punch than the Walther original. Parts aren't compatible, but who really cares when the FEG parts are cheaper anyway. I bought mine for <$150 at a show about 2 years ago. Since then, I've seen them going for >$350 at local stores. What's more. They're ALL surplus with the PA-63, so it's not like new vs used.
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