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Obama's Watergate

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impulse418 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007The intentions, from the initiation of the operation, appear to be to bust dangerous drug traffickers. <div><br></div><br><div><br></div><div> </div>[/QUOTE agentwhale007The intentions, from the initiation of the operation, appear to be to bust dangerous drug traffickers. 



 
[/QUOTE wrote:




You bought that?


You bought that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 3:44pm
Oh and a question, did not the typewriter and media actually become a favored tool of the 'facist'? The campaigns of Mussolini as well as Hitler depended on print media to support the cause. And the media kinda followed along hesitant, but more than willing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 3:41pm
Nuremburg pretty well made that concept pretty clear. The Leadership Score for Obama and any current Republican candidate is '0'. Don't trust the lot of em.

Again a lessor of two evils election, unfortuanately....I will vote ABO on principle.
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agentwhale007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

 
President Harry Truman (D): "The Buck stops HERE."

It was an interesting PR campaign for Truman, but pretty much every president since we've had presidents has fallen under the idea of: 

Quote if you can delegate blame, and then claim no knowledge, you are clear of any responsibility.

Plausible deniablity has existed forever. Obama is no exception. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


What did Mr. Obama know? 


I feel like this is a key bit if information to bury in the bottom graph. 
The answer = we don't really know. And it might be prudent to reserve the Watergate tag until we know more about what Obama indeed knew about the operation. 


That in itself is the differance between leadership and management.

President Harry Truman (D): "The Buck stops HERE."

President Barrak Obama (D): "What Buck?"

As the Head of Government and Commander and Chief by the definition of LEADERSHIP you are ultimately responsible for all actions of those under your 'command'.

Now under the definition of Management, if you can delegate blame, and then claim no knowledge, you are clear of any responsibility.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 1:48pm
I'm pretty sure you guys are thinking of Gladiator. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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mbro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Jeez, its like watching The Good Shepherd. He sees little "code" messages in news articles and thinks its spies trying to attack the country.

A Beautiful Mind.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Jeez, its like watching A Beautiful Mind. He sees little "code" messages in news articles and thinks its spies trying to attack the country.



Fixed that for ya.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 1:32pm
Jeez, its like watching The Good Shepherd. He sees little "code" messages in news articles and thinks its spies trying to attack the country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 1:21pm
The more I think about the wording here, the more I think about this: 

The terminology itself is flawed. It's an incredibly flawed analogy, to compare this situation to Watergate, if only by examining the end-game and intentions of both situations. 

If you look at Fast & Furious, the horridly flawed operation that it was, what was the end-game, if everything would have been executed correctly? It was to allow the sale of firearms to Mexican drug cartels in order to capture and prosecute the offenders later. The intentions, from the initiation of the operation, appear to be to bust dangerous drug traffickers. 

Granted, it went horribly south (No pun intended), someone didn't execute something correctly, and you have someone dead because of it. This is not a defense of the thing, simply an examination. 

Now, if you look at Watergate, the end-game was for Richard Nixon to know what the competing political party was planning on doing and saying about him during the elections. The intentions, from the beginning (And based on Nixon's prior behavior), were based in personal paranoia and the desire to win another election. Nixon approved people breaking into the Democratic offices to steal personal information. 

If executed correctly (Which it absolutely wasn't), Fast & Furious leads to the arrest of dozens of Mexican drug cartel members. 

If executed correctly, Watergate is still one of the most egregious abuses of political power in the history of the U.S. 

This isn't in defense of Fast & Furious, in the least. 

But it does a disservice to the historical potency of Watergate to even compare F&F to it. 

 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 1:13pm
WOW! This was an eye opener. I will never vote for Obama!

Thank you for freeing me FE!

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


What did Mr. Obama know? 


I feel like this is a key bit if information to bury in the bottom graph. 

The answer = we don't really know. And it might be prudent to reserve the Watergate tag until we know more about what Obama indeed knew about the operation. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 12:53pm

Wasnt this subject already covered in 6 pages + in this thread? http://www.tippmann.com/forum/wwf77a/forum_posts.asp?TID=188554

Or did you start to get shut down in that one too?


Edited by oldpbnoob - 16 December 2011 at 12:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2011 at 12:44pm
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/dec/15/obamas-watergate-758295296/
 
 
When I hear someone say they will vote for Obama again, I think of the facts in this article...
 

"A year ago this week, U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered. He died protecting his country from brutal Mexican gangsters. Two AK-47 assault rifles were found at his death site. We now know the horrifying truth: Agent Terry was killed by weapons that were part of an illegal Obama administration operation to smuggle arms to the dangerous drug cartels. He was a victim of his own government. This is not only a major scandal; it is a high crime that potentially reaches all the way to the White House, implicating senior officials. It is President Obama’s Watergate.

Operation Fast and Furious was run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and overseen by the Justice Department. It started under the leadership of Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. Fast and Furious enabled straw gun purchases from licensed dealers in Arizona, in which more than 2,000 weapons were smuggled to Mexican drug kingpins. ATF claims it was seeking to track the weapons as part of a larger crackdown on the growing violence in the Southwest. Instead, ATF effectively has armed murderous gangs. About 300 Mexicans have been killed by Fast and Furious weapons. More than 1,400 guns remain lost. Agent Terry likely will not be the last U.S. casualty.

Mr. Holder insists he was unaware of what took place until after media reports of the scandal appeared in early 2011. This is false. Such a vast operation only could have occurred with the full knowledge and consent of senior administration officials. Massive gun-running and smuggling is not carried out by low-level ATF bureaucrats unless there is authorization from the top. There is a systematic cover-up.

Congressional Republicans, however, are beginning to shed light on the scandal. Led by Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa and Rep. Darrell Issa of California, a congressional probe is exposing the Justice Department’s rampant criminality and deliberate stonewalling. Assistant Attorney General Lanny A. Breuer, who heads the department’s criminal division, helped craft a February letter to Congress that denied ATF had ever walked guns into Mexico. Yet, under pressure from congressional investigators, the department later admitted that Mr. Breuer knew about ATF gun-smuggling as far back as April 2010. In other words, Mr. Breuer has been misleading Congress. He should resign - or be fired.

Instead, Mr. Holder tenaciously insists that Mr. Breuer will keep his job. He needs to keep his friends close and potential witnesses even closer. Another example is former acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson. Internal documents show Mr. Melson directly oversaw Fast and Furious, including monitoring numerous straw purchases of AK-47s. He has admitted to congressional investigators that he, along with high-ranking ATF leaders, reassigned every “manager involved in Fast and Furious” after the scandal surfaced on Capitol Hill and in the press. Mr. Melson said he was ordered by senior Justice officials to be silent regarding the reassignments. Hence, ATF managers who possess intimate and damaging information - especially on the role of the Justice Department - essentially have been promoted to cushy bureaucratic jobs. Their silence has been bought, their complicity swept under the rug. Mr. Melson has been transferred to Justice’s main office, where he serves as a “senior adviser” on forensic science in the department’s Office of Legal Policy. Rather than being punished, Mr. Melson has been rewarded for his incompetence and criminal negligence.

Mr. Holder and his aides have given misleading, false and contradictory testimony on Capitol Hill. Perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of power - these are high crimes and misdemeanors. Mr. Holder should be impeached. Like most liberals, he is playing the victim card, claiming Mr. Issa is a modern-day Joseph McCarthy conducting a judicial witch hunt. Regardless of this petty smear, Mr. Holder must be held responsible and accountable - not only for the botched operation, but for his flagrant attempts to deflect blame from the administration.

Mr. Holder is a shameless careerist and a ruthless Beltway operative. For years, his out-of-control Justice Department has violated the fundamental principle of our democracy, the rule of law. He has refused to prosecute members of the New Black Panthers for blatant voter intimidation that took place in the 2008 election. Career Justice lawyers have confessed publicly that Mr. Holder will not pursue cases in which the perpetrators are black and the victims white. States such as Arizona and Alabama are being sued for simply attempting to enforce federal immigration laws. Mr. Holder also opposes voter identification cards, thereby enabling fraud and vote-stealing at the ballot box. What else can we expect from one who, during the Clinton administration, helped pardon notorious tax cheat Marc Rich and Puerto Rican terrorists?

Mr. Holder clearly knew about Fast and Furious and did nothing to stop it. This is because the administration wanted to use the excuse of increased violence on the border and weapons-smuggling into Mexico to justify tighter gun-control legislation. Mr. Holder is fighting ferociously to prevent important internal Justice documents from falling into the hands of congressional investigators. If the full nature of his involvement is discovered, the Obama presidency will be in peril.

Fast and Furious is even worse than Watergate for one simple reason: No one died because of President Nixon’s political dirty tricks and abuse of government power. But Brian Terry is dead; and there are still 1,500 missing guns threatening still more lives.

What did Mr. Obama know? Massive gun-smuggling by the U.S. government into a foreign country does not happen without the explicit knowledge and approval of leading administration officials. It’s too big, too risky and too costly. Mr. Holder may not be protecting just himself and his cronies. Is he protecting the president?"

They tremble at my name...
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