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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

And today, you have doctors that are forced to take way less for a procedure based on some government person deciding that medicare will only pay THIS much, even though the test costs more...
 

While correct, it's extraordinarily silly to point to this as "socialism." 

Private insurance companies operate in the exact same way. Private insurance companies are not paying the full cost of anything they are billed from the medical provider. When the insurance company gets the bill, they either reduce the costs of procedures through an existing contract with the provider, or they challenge the posted cost of the individual procedure until the medical provider agrees. 

Same thing with a private, uninsured citizen. If you go to this hospital while uninsured and rack up a $100,000 bill, you'll almost never have to pay a $100,000 bill. You end up spending a month negotiating the price down to something reasonable, after proving that you have no means to pay $100,000 worth of medical bills. It's why hospitals infamously charge $65 for two aspirin — they know that most people don't actually pay that finalized amount. 

Perhaps Strato can help confirm this. 

Quote So that person gets it for less,
 

This happens with everyone for everything medical. 

Someone with a top-of-the-line private insurance is most likely paying less per-item than someone with bottom-tier discount private insurance. 

Again, not exactly socialism. At all. It's the private market. 

Quote  and everyone else pays the additional costs,
 

Two silly things about this: 

1) Unless you support single-payer health care, or support hospitals being able to turn away those who cannot afford treatment, you're always going to be paying for other people's health care. 

2) If you have private health insurance, which I imagine you do, you're already paying for someone else's additional health care costs. 

Quote basically that is why prices keep going up, government pays less for services and the "rich" pay more.

This could not be further from the truth. 

Quote At its most basic concept that is socialism.
 

It's apparent that you understand "socialism" about as well as you understand "capitalism." 

Quote Look at Europe, (or even Canada) where people come to the US to get treatment because their system
 

The amount of people who come to the U.S. for healthcare is unbelievably low given the total amount of healthcare use in the country. Not only that, but the same thing is happening in reverse: Americans are going to Canada to get treatment that would bankrupt them in the U.S. 

Not only that, but the Canadian government - the ones operating this socialized system - pays for visits to U.S. specialistis. 

Quote and people need treatment not lines and wait times...
 

There is more "wait time." It's negligible in almost all situations, and treated by severity of problem. 

And, interestingly enough, people don't go bankrupt because of their medical treatment. 

As another point here, you act as if waits don't exist in the U.S. 

I recently had a bit of a medical issue and had to wait about three weeks to get an appointment with the appropriate specialist — and that was only after two (Granted, one was accidental) emergency room visits. 

Quote Plus look at all the treatments they don't cover now, they expect you to just go in a corner and die.
 

And this is different than private health insurance how exactly?  

Quote And the US is following in their footsteps as the breast cancer drug that just got dropped because it "didn't work well" (actually it got dropped because of the cost...)
 

Blatantly incorrect, or an outright lie on your behalf. 

The FDA - not Medicare - is revoking approval for the drug because they cannot show any results for the drug. They've conducted numerous tests and cannot find any statistical significance for the treatment of breast tumors. All they can find is increased side-effect symptoms with extended use. The production company also has the ability to appeal and reapply for approval later if they can provide results from more/different testing. 

Also, as the article states: 

"Federal officials said on Friday that Medicare would still provide coverage for the drug’s use in breast cancer, though the government plans to “monitor the issue and evaluate coverage options.”

Quote but if you get the government out of it, I know the costs would go way down...
 

History and economics are showing otherwise. 



Edited by agentwhale007 - 21 December 2011 at 3:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


I don't have the silver bullet answer to fix everything, but if you get the government out of it, I know the costs would go way down
 
How do you define getting out of it? What government regulations do you feel are inhibiting financial progress in the health sector?
 
Just out of curiosity. I spent a little bit working with collections on hospital bills, so I have some (not really what I'd call in depth or anything) experience with billing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

We have been on the european march towards socialized medicine for decades. And one look at Europe tells us that it doesn't work fiscally...

I somehow missed this gem while posting. 

I'm honestly curious as to how you come to this conclusion. Any part of it, honestly. 

How have we been on the "march toward socialized medicine" for decades, exactly? We've had exactly one quasi-reform bill pass, and that was two years ago. And that bill, as we've discussed, is about the farthest thing from socialism as you can get. It retains private company ownership, and it mandates purchase and inclusion of service from these private corporations, while the medical side of it - doctors - remain completely private. It maintains the capitalistic market of health care in every form. 

I'm also not sure, exactly, how Europe is proof that a legitimate socialized system doesn't work? 




that is an entirely different discussion with tons of information that can be discussed. I come from a family of doctors (not me mind you...) But, all I heard growing up was how medicare would destroy the doctor patient system...

And today, you have doctors that are forced to take way less for a procedure based on some government person deciding that medicare will only pay THIS much, even though the test costs more... 

So that person gets it for less, and everyone else pays the additional costs, basically that is why prices keep going up, government pays less for services and the "rich" pay more. 

At its most basic concept that is socialism. 

Look at Europe, (or even Canada) where people come to the US to get treatment because their system (the model that is used for much of liberals arguments about medicine and the US) doesn't work well, and people need treatment not lines and wait times... Plus look at all the treatments they don't cover now, they expect you to just go in a corner and die. 

And the US is following in their footsteps as the breast cancer drug that just got dropped because it "didn't work well" (actually it got dropped because of the cost...)


I don't have the silver bullet answer to fix everything, but if you get the government out of it, I know the costs would go way down... Course with all the corruption in our world today... Some people would pay the price with their lives, as some doctors are corrupt...

But, I do know that putting the government MORE in charge is just a practice in futility, as they haven't met a single deadline for implementation of Obamacare... Typical government inability to perform, and yet the answer is to give them MORE control over 1/5 of our economy...




90 congressmen have now given a "no confidence" vote for Holder...

http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/20/now-90-congressmen-have-no-confidence-in-holder-or-believe-he-should-quit/

Interesting how that isn't a news story on the nightly news, huh...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 10:20am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

You guys have brought up good points...

But, the focus needs to be on selecting politicians not by their political party, but if they are small government people or not. 
 
What is their core beliefs.
 
I agree with the first half of your point, but the second half is far too vague a term to keep using in serious political discussions. If you mean candidates that seek to trim government spending, absolutely. But simply saying we want smaller government opens the doors to all kinds of kooks.
 
 
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


On one hand you have liberals who pretend to be fiscally conservative, but are clearly lying. As their actions when they ran everything was to spend without ever even passing a budget (still haven't btw).

Then you have typical republicans who are just the same as the liberals... and all they care about is lining their pockets, and giving "government" money to their voters. 
 
Again, agreed. Though I see Republicans as less willing to give government money to voters, and more easily bought out by corporate influence. Though in essence you are correct, they both stem in the same basic two sided political logic of pretending to be for the people when in reality pursuing self interests.
 
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


Then you have the people actually trying to fix things (guys like Paul Ryan). Who want to CHANGE the programs that clearly don't work. 
 
Can't comment with any level of intelligence on this, I barely even know wh Paul Ryan is. Normally I'd make an effort to Google some info up at this junction, but I'm in the middle of something LOL

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

But, the media and the other politicians don't want their apple cart rocked. 
 
Also true.

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise[</div><div>And yet, many will still vote for an obama again, even though he is a horrible leader and can't stop the spending (he has actually increased it more than any president in history). His healthcare plan that he forced through with zero republican support or input has actually been a massive cost increase, as the cost savings built into it were all vapor, and the biggest one (CLASS) was actually removed as it wouldn't work. So they are accepting that they lied and the cost will in fact go way up... [/Quote FreeEnterprise[
And yet, many will still vote for an obama again, even though he is a horrible leader and can't stop the spending (he has actually increased it more than any president in history). His healthcare plan that he forced through with zero republican support or input has actually been a massive cost increase, as the cost savings built into it were all vapor, and the biggest one (CLASS) was actually removed as it wouldn't work. So they are accepting that they lied and the cost will in fact go way up... [/Quote wrote:

 
I wouldn't say zero Republican support. The Republicans certainly stonewalled it as best they could, but I'll bet with very little research I could find at least four or five Republicans that are peddling their own form of nationalized health care.

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Energy costs keep skyrocketing, because of the government picking winners and losers, and the taxpayer gets saddled with the costs. 
 
I wouldn't say zero Republican support. The Republicans certainly stonewalled it as best they could, but I'll bet with very little research I could find at least four or five Republicans that are peddling their own form of nationalized health care.

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Energy costs keep skyrocketing, because of the government picking winners and losers, and the taxpayer gets saddled with the costs. 
 
I bolded the part of that I feel is shaky logic.
 
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


It is frustrating that people who are thinking about starting businesses don't because of the massive amount of regulation and expense from the government. Our country is NOT business friendly, and that has consequences on all of us, as businesses go to places where they are treated right. This president is all about class warfare. 
 
Everything up until the second bolded part is certainly up for debate, yet again the burden is proving that Obama's administration in specific has so burdened the small business community that it has inhibited growth in the economy. This kind of statment could only be backed up with the kind of specific numbers that I have yet to hear from anyone.
 
The second part is just too much to swallow in this debate.
 
 

[Quote=FreeEnterprise]

Oh and Holder is lying yet again... He is trying to say he didn't pull the race card...

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/2011/12/20/did-attorney-general-eric-holder-play-race-card-his-critics

Lets review what he said. 

In an interview published yesterday, Attorney General Holder talked about his critics. Mr. Holder said he believed the more extreme segment were motivated by animus against Mr. Obama and that he served as a stand in for him. "This is a way to get at president because of the way I can be identified with him," he said, "both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we're both African-American."




Here is the new statement from the justice department on his comments.

"That is a complete distortion of the attorney general's comment. His comments both in the article and elsewhere made clear that he believes much of the criticism is launched against him are unfortunately the typical Washington gotcha game. A simple reading of those comments show he was referring to how he is identified with the president given their close relationship and all they share in common including their ideology. The position of the attorney general has been a target for partisan attacks, and given the critical work that this attorney general he is doing at the Department of Justice, it's no surprise that some are engaging in such tactics. His critics rightly view the attorney general is a progressive force, and given our current political environment, there will those who use any opportunity to score political points."



Do any of you support Holder after all of this?
 
I'm gonna go ahead and re throw out something I've said over and over on this forum-the race card is just one of a whole deck people with poor argumentative skills are employing. I could pick almost any politician and find a race card, a religion card, a family card, a right to privacy card...really, it's just a sly way of throwing out a red herring, maybe with a little ad hominem mixed in for extra flavor.
 
As far as whether or not I support Holder, no way to answer that question.


Edited by stratoaxe - 21 December 2011 at 10:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 10:16am
Originally posted by Gatyr Gatyr wrote:

 
Quote Energy costs keep skyrocketing, because of the government picking winners and losers, and the taxpayer gets saddled with the costs.

This is true, but I'm wondering if you have in mind the massive amounts of oil subsidies when you say that, or if you are trying only to insinuate that alternative fuel sources are the devil.

It's always funny for me to spot the phrases that FE uses but doesn't properly understand how to use. 

Like talking about the government "picking winners and losers" while bemoaning energy costs. 

"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 10:14am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

We have been on the european march towards socialized medicine for decades. And one look at Europe tells us that it doesn't work fiscally...

I somehow missed this gem while posting. 

I'm honestly curious as to how you come to this conclusion. Any part of it, honestly. 

How have we been on the "march toward socialized medicine" for decades, exactly? We've had exactly one quasi-reform bill pass, and that was two years ago. And that bill, as we've discussed, is about the farthest thing from socialism as you can get. It retains private company ownership, and it mandates purchase and inclusion of service from these private corporations, while the medical side of it - doctors - remain completely private. It maintains the capitalistic market of health care in every form. 

I'm also not sure, exactly, how Europe is proof that a legitimate socialized system doesn't work? 


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 10:13am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

His healthcare plan that he forced through with zero republican . . . input


Quote Energy costs keep skyrocketing, because of the government picking winners and losers, and the taxpayer gets saddled with the costs.

This is true, but I'm wondering if you have in mind the massive amounts of oil subsidies when you say that, or if you are trying only to insinuate that alternative fuel sources are the devil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 10:06am
It's like a shotgun blast formed from the collective mold of e-mail forwards. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 9:55am
I don't think you understand what small government means. If you do, then you seem to be using it in a very selective manner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2011 at 9:19am
You guys have brought up good points...

But, the focus needs to be on selecting politicians not by their political party, but if they are small government people or not. 

What is their core beliefs. 

On one hand you have liberals who pretend to be fiscally conservative, but are clearly lying. As their actions when they ran everything was to spend without ever even passing a budget (still haven't btw).

Then you have typical republicans who are just the same as the liberals... and all they care about is lining their pockets, and giving "government" money to their voters. 

Then you have the people actually trying to fix things (guys like Paul Ryan). Who want to CHANGE the programs that clearly don't work. 

But, the media and the other politicians don't want their apple cart rocked. 

And yet, many will still vote for an obama again, even though he is a horrible leader and can't stop the spending (he has actually increased it more than any president in history). His healthcare plan that he forced through with zero republican support or input has actually been a massive cost increase, as the cost savings built into it were all vapor, and the biggest one (CLASS) was actually removed as it wouldn't work. So they are accepting that they lied and the cost will in fact go way up... 

Like they are...

Energy costs keep skyrocketing, because of the government picking winners and losers, and the taxpayer gets saddled with the costs. 

It is frustrating that people who are thinking about starting businesses don't because of the massive amount of regulation and expense from the government. Our country is NOT business friendly, and that has consequences on all of us, as businesses go to places where they are treated right. This president is all about class warfare. 


Oh and Holder is lying yet again... He is trying to say he didn't pull the race card...

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-the-record/2011/12/20/did-attorney-general-eric-holder-play-race-card-his-critics

Lets review what he said. 

In an interview published yesterday, Attorney General Holder talked about his critics. Mr. Holder said he believed the more extreme segment were motivated by animus against Mr. Obama and that he served as a stand in for him. "This is a way to get at president because of the way I can be identified with him," he said, "both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we're both African-American."




Here is the new statement from the justice department on his comments.

"That is a complete distortion of the attorney general's comment. His comments both in the article and elsewhere made clear that he believes much of the criticism is launched against him are unfortunately the typical Washington gotcha game. A simple reading of those comments show he was referring to how he is identified with the president given their close relationship and all they share in common including their ideology. The position of the attorney general has been a target for partisan attacks, and given the critical work that this attorney general he is doing at the Department of Justice, it's no surprise that some are engaging in such tactics. His critics rightly view the attorney general is a progressive force, and given our current political environment, there will those who use any opportunity to score political points."



Do any of you support Holder after all of this?


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 21 December 2011 at 9:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Our government spent almost $2.5 billion every single day this year...


Yep, and I bet that they spent every single penny of it on social programs. No new jet fighters, no new weapons, no defense R&D, no infrastructure repairs, let alone paying the 2,690,000 full-time Federal employees out there. Yep, they spent it all on Geritol and colonoscopies alright!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 12:15pm
double post.

Edited by tallen702 - 20 December 2011 at 12:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 11:09am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

The real argument here isn't the individual points themselves, I'm sure most of them are true. It's how does any of that tie directly to Obama?

They don't. 

And, interestingly enough, a lot of them tend to point to the need for more social-democratic policies, like the issues with medical costs. 

Also, I'm confused about what the Waltons one has to do with anything. 

I also don't know why I'm looking for sense in a FWD:FWD:FWD: from Blaze. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 10:57am
The real argument here isn't the individual points themselves, I'm sure most of them are true. It's how does any of that tie directly to Obama?
 
Don't forget the Republicans had 8 years to create the utopia many of them believe will exist in the absence of Obama, and yet, here we are.
 
It's my belief that most of the issues with this economy are beyond the partisan squabbles of the last 11 years or so. I think they're deep rooted in several institutions that failed us in sheer foresight and left us with a mess that it's going to take years if not decades to fix.
 
Any and all political bickering is doing nothing but diverting attention from the hopelessness of that fact. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have produced answers, and in fact really the struggle is over whose Band-Aid will cover the most of the wound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 10:21am

They weren't talking about adding children necessarily, but the increase in the census numbers (illegals? legals, and terrrrorists, as well as children).

and medicare, and medicade have been around for a long time, and are no way "privatized" healthcare.
 
We have been on the european march towards socialized medicine for decades. And one look at Europe tells us that it doesn't work fiscally...
 
But, lets keep doing the same thing and hope for change!


Our government spent almost $2.5 billion every single day this year...


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 20 December 2011 at 10:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 10:09am
Quote 6. There are fewer payroll jobs in the United States today than there were back in 2000 even though we have added 30 million extra people to the population since then.

This is an OUTRAGE!  What in the hell are these 30 million newborns-11 year olds doing with their time?!  Are they too sissified to work  a 14 hour shift in the saw mill?  back in my day, this would never have been allowed.  Back when kids were MEN!

Quote 26. One study found that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

It's funny that this is a complaint coming from the same group that was ranting andraving about how great privatized healthcare is and that our system doesn't need fixing.  


Edited by evillepaintball - 20 December 2011 at 10:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:58am
K, so Tallen doesn't like glenn beck... good to know...

But, each fact has the associated news article that covered said fact... Which none of them are quoting Glenn Beck, course you could click the hyperlinks to see that, but I guess it is just easier to ignore it, because I pulled it from the blaze, right?...

That was pretty weak Tallen, I expect more from you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:48am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Originally posted by Gatyr Gatyr wrote:


Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:

Oh and a question, did not the typewriter and media actually become a favored tool of the 'facist'? The campaigns of Mussolini as well as Hitler depended on print media to support the cause. And the media kinda followed along hesitant, but more than willing.
Actually, Hitler was a huge advocate of the word of mouth in order to further his cause. He always thought literature was an inefficient way of spreading ideas and getting them to hold in the intended audience.


Don't forget film. Hitler LOVED him some good old fashioned propaganda thinly veiled as a movie. He was, in general, a fan of almost all of the arts with the exception of literature. While he authored quite a few books himself, he was not a fan of other people's works regardless of subject matter.

Are you suggesting that this differentiated him from the rest of the World somehow? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:43am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:





Seriously? You're going to quote The Blaze? For those not in the know, theblaze.com was founded by Glenn Beck. You know, the guy who said the following comparing the victims of the Norway shootings to Hitler Youth:

"There was a shooting at a political camp which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler Youth or whatever, you know what I mean. Who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing."

Or this about a whole sect of Judaism:

"Reform Rabbis are generally political in nature. It's almost like radicalized Islam in a way where it's less about religion than it is about politics."

Seriously? It's like you aren't even trying anymore FE.


Edited by tallen702 - 20 December 2011 at 8:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2011 at 8:03am
Interesting facts the media and liberal democrats (oh wait, I'm repeating myself) are ignoring when they promote ObamAA++...

1. A staggering 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be “low income” or are living in poverty.

2. Approximately 57 percent of all children in the United States are living in homes that are either considered to be “low income” or impoverished.

3. If the number of Americans that “wanted jobs” was the same today as it was back in 2007, the “official” unemployment rate put out by the U.S. government would be up to 11 percent.

4. The average amount of time that a worker stays unemployed in the United States is nowover 40 weeks.

5. One recent survey found that 77 percent of all U.S. small businesses do not plan to hire any more workers.

6. There are fewer payroll jobs in the United States today than there were back in 2000 even though we have added 30 million extra people to the population since then.

7. Since December 2007, median household income in the United States has declined by a total of 6.8 percent once you account for inflation.

8. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 16.6 million Americans were self-employed back in December 2006. Today, that number has shrunk to 14.5 million.

9. A Gallup poll from earlier this year found that approximately one out of every fiveAmericans that do have a job consider themselves to be underemployed.

10. According to author Paul Osterman, about 20 percent of all U.S. adults are currently working jobs that pay poverty-level wages.

11. Back in 1980, less than 30 percent of all jobs in the United States were low income jobs. Today, more than 40 percent of all jobs in the United States are low income jobs.

12. Back in 1969, 95 percent of all men between the ages of 25 and 54 had a job. In July, only 81.2 percent of men in that age group had a job.

13. One recent survey found that one out of every three Americans would not be able to make a mortgage or rent payment next month if they suddenly lost their current job.

14. The Federal Reserve recently announced that the total net worth of U.S. households declined by 4.1 percent in the 3rd quarter of 2011 alone.

15. According to a recent study conducted by the BlackRock Investment Institute, the ratio of household debt to personal income in the United States is now 154 percent.

16. As the economy has slowed down, so has the number of marriages. According to a Pew Research Center analysis, only 51 percent of all Americans that are at least 18 years old are currently married. Back in 1960, 72 percent of all U.S. adults were married.

17. The U.S. Postal Service has lost more than 5 billion dollars over the past year.

18. In Stockton, California home prices have declined 64 percent from where they were at when the housing market peaked.

19. Nevada has had the highest foreclosure rate in the nation for 59 months in a row.

20. If you can believe it, the median price of a home in Detroit is now just $6000.

21. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 18 percent of all homes in the state of Florida are sitting vacant. That figure is 63 percent larger than it was just ten years ago.

22. New home construction in the United States is on pace to set a brand new all-time record low in 2011.

2319 percent of all American men between the ages of 25 and 34 are now living with their parents.

24. Electricity bills in the United States have risen faster than the overall rate of inflation for five years in a row.

25. According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted for just 9.5 percent of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account for approximately 16.3 percent.

26. One study found that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

27. If you can believe it, one out of every seven Americans has at least 10 credit cards.

28. The United States spends about 4 dollars on goods and services from China for every one dollar that China spends on goods and services from the United States.

29. It is being projected that the U.S. trade deficit for 2011 will be 558.2 billion dollars.

30. The retirement crisis in the United States just continues to get worse. According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, 46 percent of all American workers have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and 29 percent of all American workers have less than $1,000 saved for retirement.

31. Today, one out of every six elderly Americans lives below the federal poverty line.

32. According to a study that was just released, CEO pay at America’s biggest companies rose by 36.5 percent in just one recent 12 month period.

33. Today, the “too big to fail” banks are larger than ever.  The total assets of the six largest U.S. banks increased by 39 percent between September 30, 2006 and September 30, 2011.

34. The six heirs of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton have a net worth that is roughly equal to the bottom 30 percent of all Americans combined.

35. According to an analysis of Census Bureau data done by the Pew Research Center, the median net worth for households led by someone 65 years of age or older is 47 times greaterthan the median net worth for households led by someone under the age of 35.

36. If you can believe it, 37 percent of all U.S. households that are led by someone under the age of 35 have a net worth of zero or less than zero.

37. A higher percentage of Americans is living in extreme poverty (6.7 percent) than has ever been measured before.

38. Child homelessness in the United States is now 33 percent higher than it was back in 2007.

39. Since 2007, the number of children living in poverty in the state of California has increased by 30 percent.

40. Sadly, child poverty is absolutely exploding all over America.  According to the National Center for Children in Poverty, 36.4 percent of all children that live in Philadelphia are living in poverty, 40.1 percent of all children that live in Atlanta are living in poverty, 52.6 percent of all children that live in Cleveland are living in poverty and 53.6 percent of all children that live in Detroit are living in poverty.

41. Today, one out of every seven Americans is on food stamps and one out of every fourAmerican children is on food stamps.

42. In 1980, government transfer payments accounted for just 11.7 percent of all income. Today, government transfer payments account for more than 18 percent of all income.

43. A staggering 48.5 percent of all Americans live in a household that receives some form of government benefits. Back in 1983, that number was below 30 percent.

44. Right now, spending by the federal government accounts for about 24 percent of GDP. Back in 2001, it accounted for just 18 percent.

45. For fiscal year 2011, the U.S. federal government had a budget deficit of nearly 1.3 trillion dollars. That was the third year in a row that our budget deficit has topped one trillion dollars.

46. If Bill Gates gave every single penny of his fortune to the U.S. government, it would only cover the U.S. budget deficit for about 15 days.

47. Amazingly, the U.S. government has now accumulated a total debt of 15 trillion dollars. When Barack Obama first took office the national debt was just 10.6 trillion dollars.

48. If the federal government began right at this moment to repay the U.S. national debt at a rate of one dollar per second, it would take over 440,000 years to pay off the national debt.

49. The U.S. national debt has been increasing by an average of more than 4 billion dollars per day since the beginning of the Obama administration.

50. During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/50-facts-about-the-u-s-economy-that-will-shock-you/




Edited by FreeEnterprise - 20 December 2011 at 8:04am
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