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Fat Kids = Neglect?

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    Posted: 28 November 2011 at 10:14am
http://news.yahoo.com/obese-third-grader-taken-mom-placed-foster-care-201731761.html
 
Is letting your 8 year old weigh 200 lbs child abuse? IMO, yes. My opinion is partially based on a child that is in my kids' class. This girl who is only 6 or 7, probably weighs 100lbs or more. It isn't a glandular problem, it is her family feeding her too damn much! I sat and watched her eat her packed lunch on multiple occasions and OMG, the quantity that was packed was incredible as was the amount of processed crap. It was disgusting.
 
Discuss.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 28 November 2011 at 10:17am
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 1:28pm
Agreed.  Letting your kid do whatever they want without protecting them from the consequences is child neglect.  Kids don't know any better, you are neglecting to care for them properly = child neglect. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 1:33pm
I think that in some cases it is definitely neglect.

Childhood obesity can set a kid on a path of bad health, low self esteem, and poor performance that can last a lifetime. It's just cruel to let a kid do whatever he wants when you the adult know its hurting him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 1:37pm
What's their economic status? 

Far too often, socioeconomic status and income tend to correlate with childhood obesity (And obesity in general). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

What's their economic status? 

Far too often, socioeconomic status and income tend to correlate with childhood obesity (And obesity in general). 

Wait, you mean the dollar menu is not healthy? Bein' lied tah!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

What's their economic status? 

Far too often, socioeconomic status and income tend to correlate with childhood obesity (And obesity in general). 
I know lots of poor people that arent fat.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 3:43pm
I'm not sure Whale was talking about poor people, but I could be wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evillepaintball Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 3:44pm
But poor people tend to eat more processed(cheaper), high fat (cheaper), and less nutritious (cheaper) foods.  They are more likely to stop off at McDonalds and pick up a few McDoubles for a few bucks rather than cook a proper, more expensive meal.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:


I know lots of poor people that arent fat.

As do I. 

I'm speaking of macro-level correlation, though. 

Of course, we all know about correlation and causation, so I'll shy away from saying that one causes the other, or vice versa. 

But there has been a recorded correlation between obesity and both socioeconomic status and education.  
It's interesting stuff to read. The trend was spotted not that long ago, so the studies into figuring out why those two elements tend to correlate are relatively fresh and diverse. 

Some point to the presumed cheapness of high-fat and high-calorie food compared to healthy alternatives. Some point to subsidies leading from that. Some point to the level of marketing for unhealthy food compared to healthy foods, and how those less educated seem to be more susceptible to marketing campaigns. 

Nobody really knows for sure. But it's fun stuff to read. 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by evillepaintball evillepaintball wrote:

They are more likely to stop off at McDonalds and pick up a few McDoubles for a few bucks rather than cook a proper, more expensive meal.  

Price is only one factor examined. 

Time is the other. 

If we look at someone who works multiple jobs, or is caring for multiple children with one job, it becomes much more valuable - to them - to save the time spent cooking and expend it on other things. 

It's the combo of price and free time that seem to be making a big impact, from simply a market standpoint. 


Edited by agentwhale007 - 28 November 2011 at 4:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:07pm
I am also sure being poor doesn't make you fat. He said tends to correlate. That doesn't mean like BAM YOU MAKE THIS YOULL BE FAT

Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:19pm
I've read a couple of articles on this as well.  Couple of things come to mind. If there is a correlation between obesity and poverty, why is the U.S. arguably one of the wealthiest countries per capita, also the fattest? I didnt say poverty made you fat, what I did say is that I know a lot of poor people that are not fat, I also know a lot of middle class/wealthy people that are fat. I would wager that more than just socioeconomic factors are at play. Things such as geography, population density, education and several other factors are at work as well. Perhaps since poor people would most likely tend to be on the lower side of the education scale, they tend to have less ability to make good eating decisions. Or figure in the people that live in BFE and have little to do other than sit on the couch watching tv and eating. Or latchkey kids that have to stay inside until their parents get home. Or how about us Northerners that are forced inside for 4-5 months a year?

Edited by oldpbnoob - 28 November 2011 at 4:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:21pm
My understanding is that, as Whale said, economic status directly correlates to health problems such as obesity.

There are lots of factors that one could probably draw into correlation here such as cost of food, time, different social pressures (being overweight may not be as much of a stigma in the trailer park as it is at the country club), so on and so forth.

Healthy eating is definitely one of my more liberal standpoints. I'm in support of more extreme measures to boost both information and incentives regarding healthy food. I know that it can be much tougher to make healthy meals on a budget because that's the plane I currently inhabit. Fortunately I'm a very self aware person and I know to compensate eating habits with more exercise, but there are lots of kids that didn't grow up with the ideas that I did, and when low income families incur health issues, it becomes the burden of the state to treat them when the money would have been better served all around with prevention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

I've read a couple of articles on this as well.  Couple of things come to mind. If there is a correlation between obesity and poverty, why is the U.S. arguably one of the wealthiest countries per capita, also the fattest? I didnt say poverty made you fat, what I did say is that I know a lot of poor people that are not fat, I also know a lot of middle class/wealthy people that are fat. I would wager that more than just socioeconomic factors are at play. Things such as geography, population density, education and several other factors are at work as well. Perhaps since poor people would most likely tend to be on the lower side of the education scale, they tend to have less ability to make good eating decisions. Or figure in the people that live in BFE and have little to do other than sit on the couch watching tv and eating. Or latchkey kids that have to stay inside until their parents get home. Or how about us Northerners that are forced inside for 4-5 months a year?



I would imagine that the correlation between obesity and poverty in the US as opposed to other poorer countries involves the availability and prevalence of processed foods here. That's purely guessing on my part, but my understanding is that poorer countries tend to rely much more on fresh foods whereas in the US fresh usually means more expensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

My understanding is that, as Whale said, economic status directly correlates to health problems such as obesity.

That's another element not touched on a lot. Along with the correlation of obesity and poverty, there is also a correlation (I believe, last time I read up on this stuff in a free-time binge) between diabetes, blood pressure and heart disease. Now, you can tie that in with obesity at some level, but also one has to look at the face someone can be not obese and still have significant diet-related illnesses. 

Someone who is 120 lbs can still suffer from diabetes and high cholesterol. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

If there is a correlation between obesity and poverty, why is the U.S. arguably one of the wealthiest countries per capita, also the fattest?

You just brought up a really interesting point. One of which I don't really have an answer at all. I've never thought of comparing GDP per-capita to obesity rates. 

I looked it up, and the U.S. is somewhere between No.7 or No.9 on the list of wealthiest GDP per-capita. The countries consistently ahead of us are:  Qatar, Luxembourg, Singapore, and Norway. 

I have no idea if those countries are facing an obesity epidemic or not. Huh. 

From an uneducated opinion standpoint: I figure it has something to do with the availability of food resources in the U.S. We're looking at "poverty," as in the definition of what poverty is, based only on the U.S. standard. What we define as poverty is not what other countries would, so that becomes difficult to compare. 

At our mid-low poverty levels, food is still available, however the food that is available tends to also be high-fat and high-calorie. 

Quote I would wager that more than just socioeconomic factors are at play.
 

You'd be astonishingly correct. There are a ton of variables in play. Just tons. 

There is pretty much no aspect of the human existence that can be related to a single variable. That makes social science so freaking awesome. 

Quote Perhaps since poor people would most likely tend to be on the lower side of the education scale, they tend to have less ability to make good eating decisions.

This is one of the proposed issues that is popular right now. 

The problem is figuring out a tangible way to correct it. Studies have shown that healthy eating PSAs (Which are already underfunded compared to the marketing campaigns of most unhealthy options) really don't have much of an effect on those below a certain socioeconomic and education threshold. Granted, those studies were performed in England. 

So PSAs are not working with adults. So then the tactic becomes trying to hit children with the education at a young age. But then there are two walls faced: 1) The constant bombardment of marketing and advertising for unhealthy products directed to children (You have kids, you're probably more aware of this than I am), and 2) Libertarian ideals that profess teaching children things is wrong, as we're seeing the backlash now from Michelle Obama's fresh foods initiative. 

It's a problem without much of a good answer. 

Quote Or figure in the people that live in BFE and have little to do other than sit on the couch watching tv and eating.  

Oh man, there is an awesome study about "food islands." If I find it, I will post it. 

It essentially looked at areas where there simply isn't the ability to shop at places where fresh produce is widely available (I think most areas were in the grain-belt of Iowa, southern Indiana and Illinois) or that the store is so fat away where buying produce is counter-productive -- in that, you need to buy stuff that lasts forever because of how far away you are. 

It found a pretty big amount of people that did all of their grocery shopping at the equivalent of a 7-11. 

Let me see if I can find it. 

(You guys need to stop bringing up such awesome discussion topics. I have stuff to do Wink)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BearClaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 5:00pm
I am not doubting that people need to take a little action towards there childs health and well being but i dont think it can soley be placed on diet.

I am 28years old and have been overweight my entire life.  I grew up doing and eating much the same as my older brother (technically a half brother as he has a different father).  Yet my brother was always in far better shape.

Even today my brother is skinnier and lighter than myself.  But i cycle regularly eat mostly healthy foods (no diet i just like fruits veggies and meats).  I am also in a physical trade were i am very active as a requirement for my job.  My older brother eats fast food regularly and sits in a truck as a truck driver all day long.  So to some extent i think geanes have a bit to do with it. 

That being said I think a big reasone we have soo many obbesity problems now is one the costs of good foods and two how many people sit in an office for a living sitting at a computer compared to years ago when everything was hands on physical labor.  

Oh and for the record in my family im am the ONLY one with no medical issues.  The only issues i have are due to some seriouse injuries i sustained early in my career.    I also DONT get sick and have not been to a doc in years.  Although was forced to go to the hospital in august when i blew my thumb nail off and split my thumb like a banana hehehehe (first time to emergency room in 23years).  So not in all cases is being overweight a sign of illness.  My brother on the other hand has digestive issues degenerating disks in his lower back and blood preasure issues.


Edited by BearClaw - 28 November 2011 at 5:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 5:03pm
Don't forget education as a factor. There are some stunningly stupid people out there failing at raising their kids because of their lack of general education on life, health, and reality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Don't forget education as a factor. There are some stunningly stupid people out there failing at raising their kids because of their lack of general education on life, health, and reality.
 
Yeah, I won't turn this into a knock down dragout and throw down my idea for "parent licenses" again...seems like I got flamed pretty hard the last time that came up LOL
 
That's where my conservative and liberal philosophies come to an intersection and the conservative side wins out. While I am in complete support of educating existing parents and their children on the dangers that their eating habits present to them, on the whole I feel like (to quote Ron White) there really isn't a cure for stupid, and there are LOTS of parents that just shouldn't have kids to begin with. In my humble opinion I think that there should be a few more standards for what constitutes abuse allowing for state intervention.
 
That said, that's the only thing I'm going to say about that in this thread because I really enjoy this discussion and don't want to turn it into another argument.
 
Back to the subject at hand...
 
Originally posted by BearClaw BearClaw wrote:

I am not doubting that people need to take a little action towards there childs health and well being but i dont think it can soley be placed on diet.

I am 28years old and have been overweight my entire life. I grew up doing and eating much the same as my older brother (technically a half brother as he has a different father). Yet my brother was always in far better shape.
 
This is partially my fault for not specifying an important exception in my posts-there is certainly the genetic factor that no amount of economic factors can offset. I'm speaking directly to obesity as a result of gross negligence in diet.
 
Here's my philosophy on the subject of parenting-if you are economically unable to provide YOURSELF ALONE with a healthy, happy standard of living, you're a complete moron for INTENTIONALLY (very important here) bringing a child into the world. Typically I try to be reserved on most subjects, but this is one I'm pretty passionate about. I don't think there's a black and white to it.
 
I realize that some people have children completely by accident (sort of, sex is a choice but we all do it and there's no denying that), but then there are those that are living with their in laws / mom and dad and make absolutely no effort to prevent having ANOTHER child on top of that. I saw it all the time in the ER, people couldn't afford preventative treatment for their children yet were giddy and happy about their third one.
 
This is, in my opinion, where you have to be careful with your humanitarian efforts. I'm going to do my best to avoid using the term liberal any more than I have to because I really don't feel this is a political conversation, but I think that assistance should never be confused with acceptance. To be more clear, I think that there SHOULD be a stigma attached to having a child when you're not ready to so. I think that we should be willing to help those that need it, but as a society we've gone far past condemning single mothers / broken homes all the way to the point of victimizing them. Having a child is certainly a choice, even if it was an unwanted side effect. In my opinion, one child = mistake, three children = stop screwing until you figure out how to take care of your younguns.
 
I realize that seems disconnected from the topic at hand, but from a purely ideological standpoint I feel it's pretty relevant.
 
Of course, as we've been over on the forum before, there's really no way to enforce ideals, so you have find legal outlets to minimize the human cost of stupidity. I personally support healthy school lunches, and really that seems like a captain obvious statement, yet many on the right feel like the left is trying to tell them what they're going to eat. Much like with the prayer in school subjects, this isn't a matter of the statel telling you how to feed your kids, it's simply saying that they're not going to be responsibly for feeding them unhealthy food.
 
Secondly, and this is where I'm getting into territory much over my head, there has to be some kind of initiative available to encourage fresh food sales vs processed food. I really have no idea, maybe healthy eating tax breaks or farming incentives, but something to offset the cost and effort of switching to fresh foods.
 
Thirdly, I haven't been in school in years so this might be a non issue, but it seems to me there should be a heavy focus in school on cooking and healthy eating. Kids should come away from high school with a good idea of how different types of fats work, how much exercise it takes to offset calories, and an idea on how to cook healthy on a budget. I find that alot of issues in society can be improved at the educational level, and I feel it's shameful that a developed nation is spending gross amounts of money every year paying people to get diet information.
 
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