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Fat Kids = Neglect?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 6:03pm
School lunches are a tough subject. I remember growing up and pretty regularly, we actually got fresh fruit on our trays. Apples, bananas and oranges mostly, but it was actually fresh, not processed fruit. I don't think I have ever seen fresh fruit on my kids menus aside from packaged apple slices that are almost always served with caramel dipper sauce. Schools also used to actually cook lunches. I do not beleive much of it was frozen or prepared. I remember the large vats of food that would be cooking in the kitchen everyday. I also remember school lunches actually not being that bad. Granted, not as good as home cooking, but not bad. I have gone to eat with my kids a couple of times over the years since they passed the healthy food initiatives and gawd the stuff is awful. I mean REALLY awful. The pizzas taste like cardboard with unsweetened ketchup and glue on them and the "chicken and noodles" literally had no taste. I think all of the cheese is fake and nothing is salted.
 
And Whale, my BFE comment was more directed towards places where there is little outdoor activities like where I live compared to somewhere like Central Florida that has year round decent weather and lots to do. Or the difference between urban living where people walk nearly everywhere and rural/suburban areas where people drive their car two blocks to pick up icecream. But your point is interesting, I had never heard of this problem before. Growing up in CF, I was pretty spoiled with the constant availability of fresh foods. I think we rarely ate processed foods besides the occassional bag of Oreos or Chips Ahoy. And I'll bet those used to be a lot better for you than they are now.
 
Which brings up an interesting aspect of this issue. I saw a segment on 60 minutes last night about a company that solely makes flavoring additives. It was interesting and frightening. One part mentioned that some foods contain "natural flavoring" to acheive a Raspberry flavor. They neglect to tell the consumer that this flavor is derived from an excretion from the gland on the back of a beaver. I nearly hurled. The point being, with all of the chemical additives and such, how much nutritiion are we really getting from processed foods? At what point does something no longer qualify as food?


Edited by oldpbnoob - 28 November 2011 at 6:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 7:57pm
I'm going to correlate kids sitting on their fat asses playing video games all day with fatassery.  Just like go out and run through the woods or something and blame yourself.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 9:02pm
I blame the rap music.


  
But seriously, as a medical professional; I advocate childhood obesity constituting abuse. I understand the multifaceted socioeconomic conditions and myriad of other contributors which lead to the condition. I however, do not view them as acceptable.

You wouldn't knowledgeably feed your child poison, no matter how fast, cheap, or foolish you were about the subject. 

There needs to be a greater understanding of the health ramifications obesity leads to, and the overall acceptance and tolerance needs to end.  Then again, I believe medicine to be entirely too wishy washy now a days, appealing to an individuals sensitivities is not always doing that person a favor. 

It is the parents duty to oversee the welfare of their child, allowing them to become excessively obese is accomplishing just the opposite. Reasoning and factors aside; raising a child is difficult and forcing a more active lifestyle or a healthier diet is one of those difficult, but responsible, factors. 



Do note: "Excessive obesity".


Edited by *Stealth* - 28 November 2011 at 9:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

I'm going to correlate kids sitting on their fat asses playing video games all day with fatassery.  Just like go out and run through the woods or something and blame yourself.  


Yeah, you know those 9 year olds, they sure do think like a 20-something don't they? Oh that's right, they don't. That's the entire point of this thread. It is on the parents to guide that behaviour, the kid simply doesn't know any better/ different. Yeah it is generally your own responsibility, but again it comes down to being an attentive parent. Who knows where I'll be when I have kids, but I think I would try to get in good shape while the kid was on his way. I want to be able to run around with them, carry them, chase them down, explore etc without being the winded out of breath no fun dad.
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High. Fructose. Corn. Syrup.


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As separate words they're great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2011 at 11:19pm
My parents guided me to big macs and whoppers.  I still managed to be ranked in the top 100 in the country in swimming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 3:16am
This place is better than fark because it hasn't devolved into a rice and beans and farmers markets are the cheapest place to purchase food thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 8:31am
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

My parents guided me to big macs and whoppers.  I still managed to be ranked in the top 100 in the country in swimming
Big Macs and Whoppers are fine when you are burning 4-5k of calories a day. The problem is, you have kids consuming these items that do little of no physical activity.
 
While on the subject, anyone that says McDonalds is a cheaper alternative than eating real food is full of it. For what three Happy Meals and a supersized Big Mac meal cost, you can put together a decent, somewhat healthy meal. Another problem with the cost of food argument is that too many people go for quantity over quality. It's the only explanation I have as to why the Golden Corrals stay in business.
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O RLY?

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Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

My parents guided me to big macs and whoppers.  I still managed to be ranked in the top 100 in the country in swimming
Big Macs and Whoppers are fine when you are burning 4-5k of calories a day. The problem is, you have kids consuming these items that do little of no physical activity.
 
While on the subject, anyone that says McDonalds is a cheaper alternative than eating real food is full of it. For what three Happy Meals and a supersized Big Mac meal cost, you can put together a decent, somewhat healthy meal. Another problem with the cost of food argument is that too many people go for quantity over quality. It's the only explanation I have as to why the Golden Corrals stay in business.

This is my point.  Kids need to go build a tree fort or something and get off their duffs. I used to get in trouble because I would constantly be late for dinner.  Too busy running in the woods, climbing trees, riding bikes, playing ball,  building tennis ball cannons, fighting neighborhood hoodlums, playing army men and chasing neighbor girls I guess. 

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I spend a lot of time working in a school that's in a really rural part of NY.
In fact I'm there now. Not actually working, but we'll look beyond that for a moment.
 
Is childhood obesity abuse/neglect? I don't know, but I do know that there has to be a correlation between geographic location and all of the other contributing factors which lead to the kids turning into little fatties.
 
My science is not exact, but hear me out.
 
I grew up in an area similar to the one where I'm working now. My parents were constantly saying things like "Go out and play." - The thing is...we COULD. There were vast expanses of woods, fields, and yards to play in. We ate as kids did too, a wide array of things from fruit at lunch time to sweets and the occasional fast food if we were on the road somewhere. The fact is though, that no matter what we ate, the opportunities were there to burn off those calories.
 
If you're living in poor, crime infested areas, "Go out and play" could be the same as saying "Go get stabbed." The opportunities that I had as a kid aren't there. That leaves the schools to play catch-up with the work out time that was missed at home, which can't often be done.
 
One could almost argue that a chubby kid in an inner city area is NOT neglected....but just doesn't have the ability to burn off whatever caloric intake they might have given the lack of exercise opportunities, where "Go out and play" isn't a viable option.
 
Geographic location, which often ties with socio-economic status has got to be a factor. Going back to the school I'm working in, the vast, overwhelming majority of these kids are NOT obese, or even remotely overweight. There's a few standouts, as always, but the population on the whole appears healthy. Why? Because they're outside most of the year, be it skiing, hiking, playing sports, motor sports, farm work, etc, etc....all things that will help you regardless of what you eat, all things that you can't get into if you're penned into a concrete jungle with rusty playgrounds overrun with crack dealers.
 
Of course, this is a malformed thought in my head, I'm not insinuating that everyone who grows up in areas like that are fat and poor- but from the angle I'm seeing, when the opportunity for regular exercise is missing, there's going to be a problem. And in areas where you've got a high poverty or low-income population, this could be exactly what's happening.
 
This does not excuse parents who don't properly regulate what their young kids are eating though. If you KNOW that you can't get junior out and running through the woods, a box of Softees donuts probably isn't the best breakfast idea. It boils down to the parents needing to know what opportunities they can give their kids to freakin move around, and feed them accordingly. Failure to do THAT may constitute neglect.
 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

My parents guided me to big macs and whoppers.  I still managed to be ranked in the top 100 in the country in swimming
Big Macs and Whoppers are fine when you are burning 4-5k of calories a day. The problem is, you have kids consuming these items that do little of no physical activity.
 
While on the subject, anyone that says McDonalds is a cheaper alternative than eating real food is full of it. For what three Happy Meals and a supersized Big Mac meal cost, you can put together a decent, somewhat healthy meal. Another problem with the cost of food argument is that too many people go for quantity over quality. It's the only explanation I have as to why the Golden Corrals stay in business.

This is my point.  Kids need to go build a tree fort or something and get off their duffs. I used to get in trouble because I would constantly be late for dinner.  Too busy running in the woods, climbing trees, riding bikes, playing ball,  building tennis ball cannons, fighting neighborhood hoodlums, playing army men and chasing neighbor girls I guess. 

Sounds a lot like my childhood.
 
We're saying essentially the same thing. I just feel that parents do have a responsibility to take care of their kids. Kicking them outside to go and play or telling them to push away from the table should be part of those responsibilities and they should be accountable to someone if they don't uphold them. Much like giving them proper shelter and medical care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

 
This does not excuse parents who don't properly regulate what their young kids are eating though. If you KNOW that you can't get junior out and running through the woods, a box of Softees donuts probably isn't the best breakfast idea. It boils down to the parents needing to know what opportunities they can give their kids to freakin move around, and feed them accordingly. Failure to do THAT may constitute neglect.
 
 
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.
 
Problem though, is that how many of these kids sit at home alone for 2,3,4  or more hours alone with a cabinet full of junk food? It's hard to resist. I gained probably 15-20lbs at least when I started working from home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:12am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Lightningbolt Lightningbolt wrote:

My parents guided me to big macs and whoppers.  I still managed to be ranked in the top 100 in the country in swimming
Big Macs and Whoppers are fine when you are burning 4-5k of calories a day. The problem is, you have kids consuming these items that do little of no physical activity.
 
While on the subject, anyone that says McDonalds is a cheaper alternative than eating real food is full of it. For what three Happy Meals and a supersized Big Mac meal cost, you can put together a decent, somewhat healthy meal. Another problem with the cost of food argument is that too many people go for quantity over quality. It's the only explanation I have as to why the Golden Corrals stay in business.

This is my point.  Kids need to go build a tree fort or something and get off their duffs. I used to get in trouble because I would constantly be late for dinner.  Too busy running in the woods, climbing trees, riding bikes, playing ball,  building tennis ball cannons, fighting neighborhood hoodlums, playing army men and chasing neighbor girls I guess. 

Sounds a lot like my childhood.
 
We're saying essentially the same thing. I just feel that parents do have a responsibility to take care of their kids. Kicking them outside to go and play or telling them to push away from the table should be part of those responsibilities and they should be accountable to someone if they don't uphold them. Much like giving them proper shelter and medical care.
 
The point I tried to make was simply that 'kicking them outside' might not always be a safe option. There isn't a parent in the world who wouldn't love to throw their kids outside for a few hours every day. But what about areas where you just...cant do that? Regardless of diet, if there's no oportunity for regular exercise, there will be health ramifications. A chubby kid in a dangerous urban area could be a possible sign of GOOD parenting, since there's an unwillingness on the parent's part to throw the kid into the streets for a few hours. (That's a stretch, but you can see where blanket assumptions might be a bad idea.)  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:17am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

 
This does not excuse parents who don't properly regulate what their young kids are eating though. If you KNOW that you can't get junior out and running through the woods, a box of Softees donuts probably isn't the best breakfast idea. It boils down to the parents needing to know what opportunities they can give their kids to freakin move around, and feed them accordingly. Failure to do THAT may constitute neglect.
 
 
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.
 
Problem though, is that how many of these kids sit at home alone for 2,3,4  or more hours alone with a cabinet full of junk food? It's hard to resist. I gained probably 15-20lbs at least when I started working from home.
Yeah, that's a huge issue. Kids CANNOT regulate themselves. If they're left to their devices, which is often the case in today's culture, they're going to eat poorly. Here again, the parents need to KNOW that little timmy is going to be home alone and cut back on the crap food that stocks the cabinets if there's going to be no regular way to burn that stuff off. Parenting needs to be more pro-active when it comes to this. If you can't realize your situation, know your kids, and be able to make proper purchases and choices that are going to be right for your child's health...then yeah, it could be neglect. No question.
 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:20am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

  
The point I tried to make was simply that 'kicking them outside' might not always be a safe option. There isn't a parent in the world who wouldn't love to throw their kids outside for a few hours every day. But what about areas where you just...cant do that? Regardless of diet, if there's no oportunity for regular exercise, there will be health ramifications. A chubby kid in a dangerous urban area could be a possible sign of GOOD parenting, since there's an unwillingness on the parent's part to throw the kid into the streets for a few hours. (That's a stretch, but you can see where blanket assumptions might be a bad idea.)  
I get that as well, but if you cannot have them go out and play, than you limit their caloric intake. Its one or the other.
 
Whats sad as well is that some schools are beginning to do away with or limit the amount of physical activity that is required every day at school. If I am not mistaken, our local school now accepts band for a Phys Ed credit. While I can understand this for kids that march during football season, during winter they get little or no physical activity that I am aware of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:23am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

 
This does not excuse parents who don't properly regulate what their young kids are eating though. If you KNOW that you can't get junior out and running through the woods, a box of Softees donuts probably isn't the best breakfast idea. It boils down to the parents needing to know what opportunities they can give their kids to freakin move around, and feed them accordingly. Failure to do THAT may constitute neglect.
 
 
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner.
 
Problem though, is that how many of these kids sit at home alone for 2,3,4  or more hours alone with a cabinet full of junk food? It's hard to resist. I gained probably 15-20lbs at least when I started working from home.

I'd get left at home alot.  I'd ride my bike 5-10 miles to the Burger King for a Whopper or I'd snag a pizza from Little Ceasars and ride home one-handed hauling the pizza delivery dude style.  It didn't really seem like that big of a deal to polish off an entire bag of Lay's potato chips for dinner and then go play Malachi Crunch on the bikes or go try to hold hands with a neighbor girl or something.

You could have put me in a cardboard box as a youngster and I would have found a way to do what kids do.  Oh wait is that watching pron and posting on assface book now?

It's not like we used to hand-mill wheat grain for food back in the day.  Yay for eating entire boxes of Pop Tarts and popsicles when you're a kid.



Edited by Lightningbolt - 29 November 2011 at 10:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:34am
Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

  
The point I tried to make was simply that 'kicking them outside' might not always be a safe option. There isn't a parent in the world who wouldn't love to throw their kids outside for a few hours every day. But what about areas where you just...cant do that? Regardless of diet, if there's no oportunity for regular exercise, there will be health ramifications. A chubby kid in a dangerous urban area could be a possible sign of GOOD parenting, since there's an unwillingness on the parent's part to throw the kid into the streets for a few hours. (That's a stretch, but you can see where blanket assumptions might be a bad idea.)  
I get that as well, but if you cannot have them go out and play, than you limit their caloric intake. Its one or the other.
 
Whats sad as well is that some schools are beginning to do away with or limit the amount of physical activity that is required every day at school. If I am not mistaken, our local school now accepts band for a Phys Ed credit. While I can understand this for kids that march during football season, during winter they get little or no physical activity that I am aware of.
 
You are correct. If there's no chance to burn off the calories, as Lighteningbolt is talking about, then the caloric intake has to be regulated. Not doing that is piss poor parenting.
One teacher around here got in trouble a while back because her class was being rambunctious, so she took them outside and had them jog around the soccer field to burn off some energy. There's lip service being paid by schools to make kids healthier, but I don't see much of it going into practice.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2011 at 10:39am
LB, no one here is arguing that kids shouldnt be more active. The argument is, that if the kids choose not to be active, than the parents need to "parent" and either controll caloric intake or force the kids to be more active. Parenting isnt setting your kids loose and letting them do whatever cranks their tractor, it's helping them make the right decisions when they are unable to. Unfortunately, many parents don't have the ability to make good decisions for themselves, let alone others. I would venture a guess that the parents of the kid in question are fatasses as well. Pretty hard to tell your kid to put down the box of HoHo's when you are shoving them into your piehole as fast as your chubby little fingers can get the wrapper open.
 
BTW, I think the teacher getting in trouble for having her kids run around the soccer field is ludicrous.


Edited by oldpbnoob - 29 November 2011 at 10:41am
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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