Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Debt issue...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>
Author
Monk View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 October 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6552
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Debt issue...
    Posted: 29 July 2011 at 9:35am
Am I the only one who thinks this debt thing is just a bunch of hooplah. All this scare stuff and end of the world crap seems a lot like any other time there was a media frenzy. Like <insert animal here> Flu, or global cooling, global warming.

Plus, lets say that the financial issues do cause a crash, I have entire confidence that America will bounce back. Look at our history of doing what needs to be done when <poopy> hits the fan. Its what makes America a country of bad<butts>.

Maybe I'm Crazy.
/\ /\ \/ \/ < > < > B A START
Back to Top
FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not a card-carrying member of the DNC

Joined: 14 October 2008
Location: Trails Of Doom
Status: Offline
Points: 4785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 9:40am
I agree. It is just like the whole "must pass obamacare without reading it... Christmas is upon us...".
 
Must pass Tarp, or the world will end.
 
Must pass stimulus or the world will end.
 
Now, Must pass debt ceiling so we can keep spending all this cash to payoff our friends or we won't be reelected and the world will end...
 
 
"never let a crisis go to waste, it allows you to do things that you could never get done otherwise"...
 
I read that they will include a provision that takes away the tax benefit for mortgage interest write offs, as well as 401k tax write offs, and insurance write offs...
 
Gotta hurry so no one knows what is in the bill and everyone just signs it without reading it.
 
 
At least the media calls them on it... Oh wait.
They tremble at my name...
Back to Top
High Voltage View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Fire in the disco

Joined: 12 March 2003
Location: 127.0.0.1
Status: Offline
Points: 14179
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 9:45am
Not crazy, just ignorant.

And the reason this SHOULD be a big deal, aside from the consequences we will face, is because we brought it upon ourselves.


Edited by High Voltage - 29 July 2011 at 11:05am
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 10:09am
It concerns me, but maybe because I have a lot to possibly lose right now. Currently sitting with a short term adjustable loan while my house is being built and if interest rates skyrocket I'm totally jacked.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
tallen702 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - Swearing on Facebook

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: Under Your Bed
Status: Offline
Points: 10951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 10:23am
Monk, you aren't the only one, I can count at least 18 teabagggers in congress who also don't believe it's a big issue. Unfortunately, it actually is a big issue. Scratch that, a HUGE issue.

The reality of the situation is even worse than what is being reported by most media outlets. Even if this thing gets passed, congress has pulled enough crap to prove to the ratings groups that the US is unreliable in it's debt handling. That means that we will more than likely face a downgrade in our rating, just not a severe as if we were to actually default.

Now, what happens when we get downgraded? Well, for one, our very own interest rates get jacked up by the countries we are borrowing from because the dollar is less reliable, meaning worth less. The dollar will probably quit being the "standard" currency because it won't be seen as secure anymore. That will mean that foreign and domestic investors will start investing in things like the Yuan or the GBP rather than the USD. This means that every dollar you earn is worth even less. Ultimately this can lead to hyperinflation if not checked by forces outside of our control. So, unless you want everything you've ever worked for to be worthless, I suggest you urge your senators and representatives to put aside the partisan bull-crap and remember that their interest is in the people of the US, not some partisan bickering. Both sides are at fault big time.
Back to Top
Dune View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
<placeholder>

Joined: 05 February 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 10:52am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I agree. It is just like the whole "must pass obamacare without reading it... Christmas is upon us...".
 
Must pass Tarp, or the world will end.
 
Must pass stimulus or the world will end.
 
Now, Must pass debt ceiling so we can keep spending all this cash to payoff our friends or we won't be reelected and the world will end...
 
 
"never let a crisis go to waste, it allows you to do things that you could never get done otherwise"...
 
I read that they will include a provision that takes away the tax benefit for mortgage interest write offs, as well as 401k tax write offs, and insurance write offs...
 
Gotta hurry so no one knows what is in the bill and everyone just signs it without reading it.
 
 
At least the media calls them on it... Oh wait.
 
Must attack Iraq, they have WMDs.
 
It's more of the same. People in office who refuse to work together to further the power of those few that pull their strings. Meanwhile, the middle class disappears, hardworking people stay poor and jobless, and people become more apathetic to the political process.
Back to Top
Rofl_Mao View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
request denied

Joined: 27 October 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 11:05am
On the bright side, I went over to Walmart in Maine the other day and actually got money back because our dollar is worth more.
Back to Top
Monk View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 October 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6552
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 11:11am
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

Monk, you aren't the only one, I can count at least 18 teabagggers in congress who also don't believe it's a big issue. Unfortunately, it actually is a big issue. Scratch that, a HUGE issue.

The reality of the situation is even worse than what is being reported by most media outlets. Even if this thing gets passed, congress has pulled enough crap to prove to the ratings groups that the US is unreliable in it's debt handling. That means that we will more than likely face a downgrade in our rating, just not a severe as if we were to actually default.

Now, what happens when we get downgraded? Well, for one, our very own interest rates get jacked up by the countries we are borrowing from because the dollar is less reliable, meaning worth less. The dollar will probably quit being the "standard" currency because it won't be seen as secure anymore. That will mean that foreign and domestic investors will start investing in things like the Yuan or the GBP rather than the USD. This means that every dollar you earn is worth even less. Ultimately this can lead to hyperinflation if not checked by forces outside of our control. So, unless you want everything you've ever worked for to be worthless, I suggest you urge your senators and representatives to put aside the partisan bull-crap and remember that their interest is in the people of the US, not some partisan bickering. Both sides are at fault big time.


Interesting. See, I needed that dumbed down version of things. I can understand my finances, but when talking about massive amounts of money and how it works with the rest of the world I am straight up dumb.

I still dont see how congress can actually change our debt. Raise taxes = the people getting screw/the rich getting screwed  Cut taxes = no money to pay debts  Cut spending = reduced programs which screws the people who need it.

I am partial to Cutting spending, but then again I like a smaller government. I feel some issues are just not a government concern. But then again I have no idea how national finances work again.

Also adjustable rate is a bad idea bro.
/\ /\ \/ \/ < > < > B A START
Back to Top
oldpbnoob View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not old, Not noob. May be Dave's grandma

Joined: 04 February 2008
Location: Yankee Stadium
Status: Offline
Points: 5676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

Also adjustable rate is a bad idea bro.
Unfortunately, when building a house it's the only way it's done up here. They will not lock into a fixed rate until the house is completed and a final inspection and appraisal is done. I checked with three seperate lending institutions. One would only give us a 15yr fixed and then we would have to refinance at whatever the going rate was at that time. I didnt see any reason for the interest rates to jump up when we initially took out the loan. Figures
 
Sorry for the off topic.
 
As for cutting programs, I think part of the problem is more mismanagement of the money that is already out there. There are massive issues with Medicare fraud alone that need to be fixed. I am sure it is equally jacked up in other social programs. Take the government subsidized housing down the road. Rent is based on income. If you earn little or nothing, your rent can be as low as $1 per month. Of course the rules include the person applying for the qualifying status have no other adults living in the house with any means of income. Can't tell you how many have their boyfriends or baby daddys living with them.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
Back to Top
Rofl_Mao View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
request denied

Joined: 27 October 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 11:25am
*cough* Raise taxes *cough*
Back to Top
tallen702 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - Swearing on Facebook

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: Under Your Bed
Status: Offline
Points: 10951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Monk Monk wrote:

Interesting. See, I needed that dumbed down version of things. I can understand my finances, but when talking about massive amounts of money and how it works with the rest of the world I am straight up dumb. I still dont see how congress can actually change our debt. Raise taxes = the people getting screw/the rich getting screwed  Cut taxes = no money to pay debts  Cut spending = reduced programs which screws the people who need it.I am partial to Cutting spending, but then again I like a smaller government. I feel some issues are just not a government concern. But then again I have no idea how national finances work again.Also adjustable rate is a bad idea bro.


The reality is that the status quo simply isn't going to work and that we're going to have to do all of the above. We need to simplify the tax code, eliminating loopholes and shelters for both corporations and individuals. We need to reduce spending, especially on outmoded and pet projects which have no viable financial or social output. And finally, we need to not only balance our budget, but pay off our debts in entirety.

If you really want to know what happens when a country defaults on its loans, take a look at post WWI Germany and post 1991 Russia. Both had worthless currencies which led the weak central governments and massive corruption. Both were eventually brought out of horrible depressions by cults of personality which have put them at odds with the rest of the civilized world. Life in Russia outside the capital cities (Moscow, Petrograd, Kazan) is still pretty damned miserable for all concerned while life in said cities is only decent for the vast majority. The only reason that Russia isn't in a continued state of upheaval is that they paid off their debts after they defaulted on them, and haven't borrowed since. Still, 20 years just to get to where they are now, not a great outlook for us if we do the same.
Back to Top
impulse418 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 November 2010
Location: Phx, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 12:02pm
I smell the chaos brewing. 
Back to Top
FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Not a card-carrying member of the DNC

Joined: 14 October 2008
Location: Trails Of Doom
Status: Offline
Points: 4785
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 12:17pm
The problem is the people in power around the world don't want to give up that power, so they don't care if it hurts your business/housebeingbuilt/personal finances.
 
They could care less what gas costs, they don't care what your groceries costs, or what the dollar value is...
 
They just want to keep their power and be important, and driven around by other people's money.
 
 
 
The issue if the US defaults is way worse than you guys suggest, as there is NO currency as stable as ours... The other currencies are WAY worse, and less stable, China is a joke, they manipulate their markets daily, Russia... joke... EU joke...
 
It is all based on keeping the power in the hands of a few, and whipping up the minions to do their bidding.
 
 
I remember building and having an adjustable mortgage... Kind of reminds me of running a business and worrying daily about what the government was going to do next to you, as they never have enough money and always need more of yours...
 
(at least they have good intentions?...)
 
 
oh wait.
 
 
They tremble at my name...
Back to Top
tallen702 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - Swearing on Facebook

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: Under Your Bed
Status: Offline
Points: 10951
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 2:01pm
In reality, the Yuan is probably more valuable than the USD right now give the balance of trade. The Chicoms keep it artificially low simply to make the US debt that they own worth that much more. If they unpegged it and allowed it to float on the market, it'd mean that they USD would be worth less in comparison and thus, the money we'd owe them would be worth a lot less.
Back to Top
Donald Blake View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 May 2011
Location: Family Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 161
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:


Now, what happens when we get downgraded? Well, for one, our very own interest rates get jacked up by the countries we are borrowing from because the dollar is less reliable, meaning worth less.


... and when the interest rates on US debt goes up, so does the interest rate on everything else, because it is all tied to the t-bill rate.  Credit cards, Target cards, mortgages, Franky "the Tooth", car loans, business loans, EVERY kind of debt in the US becomes more expensive.  Basically, by not raising the debt limit, the US will suddenly be MORE in debt than before.

And when corporate debt is more expensive, that extra cost of money goes into the price of goods.  So now stuff gets more expensive.  ALL the stuff.

Is it the end of the world?  Not really.  But is it a really, really bad thing for the US and all the people living here? Yes.

Originally posted by tallen tallen wrote:

The dollar will probably quit being the "standard" currency because it won't be seen as secure anymore. That will mean that foreign and domestic investors will start investing in things like the Yuan or the GBP rather than the USD.


That would certainly be bad, and may yet happen, but I am not convinced that this debt issue would be sufficient to trigger such a change....   But details.


Back to Top
Donald Blake View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 May 2011
Location: Family Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 161
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
 
The issue if the US defaults is way worse than you guys suggest, as there is NO currency as stable as ours... The other currencies are WAY worse, and less stable...


lolwut?
Back to Top
agentwhale007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Forum's Vladimir Lenin

Joined: 20 June 2002
Location: GNV FLA
Status: Offline
Points: 11696
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Donald Blake Donald Blake wrote:

 ALL the stuff.


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




Back to Top
Rofl_Mao View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
request denied

Joined: 27 October 2008
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3192
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 July 2011 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by Donald Blake Donald Blake wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
 
The issue if the US defaults is way worse than you guys suggest, as there is NO currency as stable as ours... The other currencies are WAY worse, and less stable...


lolwut?


Umm... lol
Back to Top
impulse418 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 November 2010
Location: Phx, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 1651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2011 at 12:12am
Everything will be okay people. There is plenty of government cheese to go around.

I'm kind of feel left out. Seems like every country but ours has had massive protest and riots. Unhappy
Back to Top
ammolord View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 July 2007
Location: Minot, ND
Status: Offline
Points: 1832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2011 at 12:33am
Well, its not too late....
PSN Tag: AmmoLord
XBL: xXAmmoLordXx


~Minister of Tinkering With Things That Go "BOOM!"(AKA Minister of Munitions)~
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 6>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.219 seconds.