Worst disaster in U.S. History

Dune wrote: FreeEnterprise wrote: It is sad how you guys always want to make everything = one specific example...      Says the guy that said all thousands of babies in the United States have been murdered because of convenience. Since that is the only reason a woman would ever choose an abortion.    (please provide the proof I said this...) You tried that whole Democrats = KKK thing. I'm glad you know your history, trying to correlate them today is just a sad attempt. I teach about people like you in class. When we discuss general belief systems, I always have to discuss those out-liers on both ends of the political system. I give examples of things people similiar to you believe as well as things that those on the extreme left believe. The kids get a kick out of conspiracy theories and fear-mongering from both sides.

FreeEnterprise wrote: It is sad how you guys always want to make everything = one specific example... Life is about choices, and you can't put everyone into one catagory. Just follow the evidence, and that will point out issues that have moral consequence. It doesn't mean EVERY example will follow that narrow path, but that also doesn't mean that NONE of the examples are inaccurate.

Hey, look - a cogent, intelligent, nuanced argument by FE.

Gatyr wrote: It's pretty incredible just how much FE hates the democratic party.

What's incredible is how this turned into an abortion thread.

And no one seen FE changing a thread to something about religion, morals, abortion, democrats, republicans, left, right, Jesus, The Pope, legos, ponies, or Obama?

agentwhale007 wrote: FreeEnterprise wrote:  which party advocates abortion?   I'd venture to guess that the correction answer to this is "neither."  I don't believe anyone involved in government - or really anyone in general - advocates in favor of abortion. I do think, however, one party tends to support it as a legalized option more than the others.    Now you are just being silly. Democrats are pro choice, republicans are by and large pro life. It isn't even close.   Which party promotes "values" that actually tear down the family unit?   A strange discussion, to claim that welfare is something that tears down the family unit. But a dodge of topic, none-the-less.     democrats promote welfare, abortion, no school choice, and class warfare. While breaking down the family unit through paying women MORE money if they don't have a man around. That breaks down the family unit. You love stats, look at the stats of single moms in poor parts of the country prior to 1973, vs today. You will see a massive increase in single moms, as our morals have declined as a society. on the taxpayers dime.   False.    The link you provided is an interesting situation, but it's not indicative of Federal tax dollars funding abortions across the U.S. It involves a rather complex situation with the District of Columbia not actually being a state, and not having the same governmental structure as the rest of the country. They've been audited many times before, and while those audits have shown problems in medicaid/medicare billing (Which should be investigated like any other claim), I've not read anything showing a problem with Federal monies paying for abortions.    Federal moneys  paid for those abortions. MY TAX DOLLARS (maybe they put my tax dollars into something else, AMIRITE???).   Even when I provide PROOF of what I am saying, you still don't believe it... Interesting case, in DC, but not relevant.  And planned parenthood is all about abortion, False.  It is, as you know, about 3% of their total interactions. The vast majority of their customer interactions - about 35% - involve contraceptives. Either distributing free condoms or charging a discounted rate, I think about $11, for basic birth-control pills.  and they get tax dollars, so don't tell me they put "that" money in a different place,  That is how allocation of money occurs in almost every instance of everything.  It's silly to pretend otherwise.

Mack wrote: Gatyr wrote: It's pretty incredible just how much FE hates the democratic party.  What's incredible is how this turned into an abortion thread.

Maybe we can rescue things by turning it into an evolution thread?

Hey FE, do you own any dogs?

Dune wrote: I teach how people who follow one side politics can have a negative impact on the government. I show them extreme views of the left and the right and how the stubborn attitudes of the two sides hurt the American people. I never said anything about Christian values, that's just you pretending to be a victim while up on your cross. It must be lonely up there. Each religion gets the same time and detail in my class, as it is important to explain their patterns, how they have spread across space and time, and their core values. In addition, I also teach Darwin and his beliefs as an idea and how it has spread and developed.   Edit: My theory on teaching is that it is very important for students to make up their own minds about issues. You can't downplay one issue over another, or religion. Objectivity is the key, and it is the job of the teacher to leave their subjectivity out of it.  For you to insinuate that I bully my kids with the threat of grades to get them to follow my views is beyond pathetic and serves more of an example as to how disrespect for our educational system is contagious and is very harmful to our future population.

Nice dodge, but you didn't answer my question...

FreeEnterprise wrote: Ahh, the 3% talking point... Here I will prove that wrong, yet again...   http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/11/planned-parenthoods-truth-team-forgets-its-abortions/   "Yet according to PPFA’s own March 2011 Planned Parenthood Services fact sheet, 332,278 abortions were performed on some of PPFA’s three million clients in the year ending June 30, 2009.  This suggests that eleven percent of their clients had abortions in that year, not three percent.

Math fail, all across.

PP's statement was that abortions make up roughly 3% of services.  This is consistent with data provided by PP.

Giving Lifenews the benefit of the doubt here, I will say they noticed that "services" is different from "patients," and many/most patients receive more than one "service" - that must be true, since PP had roughly 3MM patients and provided more than 11MM services during the period in question.

So Lifenews is correct in observing that most likely, more than 3% of people that walk through PP's doors have abortions.  They are NOT correct, however, in concluding as they do that 11% of PP's patients have abortions, for that self-same reason:  services are not evenly distributed.  Some patients will have multiple abortions in a year, thereby reducing the number of patients having abortions - which is of course why you measure these things by services in the first place.

So PP's statement is correct when read correctly.  When mashed up and mangled, like Lifenews did, then it looks wrong.

FreeEnterprise wrote: Here is the latest report from a credible organization that states abortion is the service that 12% of planned parenhood customers receive.

 

agentwhale007 wrote:   How exactly is, even assuming that it is at 12% (Which the Thunder God did a good job of explaining), abortion all about what Planned Parenthood is?