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CCW Ohio, man attacked in Dayton Shoots criminals.

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DeTrevni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 3:17am
I have a CHL. And I ride a motorcycle. I mostly feel like a cowboy. If swords were legal to carry, I'd carry one of those as well. Mostly, it's a "because I can" situation.

I'm probably gonna wind up getting a single-action revolver to carry. Basically, I'd feel cool with one. Also, if I need more than six shots, I'm NOT gonna be pulling a gun...
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Kayback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 3:58am
De Trevni, what?!

SA revolvers should be carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber, so you'd only have 5 shots.

Second, WHAT?

Handguns are seriously under powered. They don't have enough energy in the system to cause instant incapacitation, even with CNS shots. Handguns are the choice of concealed carry weapons because they are concealable, not because they are efficient weapons.

You could easily need more than 6 shots on one person.

Single Action revolvers went out of style for various reasons, one being they are not very good one handed weapons. While it can be done, running a SA revolver one handed isn't efficient nor easy.

They are also more bulky than most auto loaders.

Thirdly, W!H!A!T!?!?!?
If you need more than 6 rounds, that's when you'll probably need to draw your gun. Disparity in force and all.

I get the "because I can" argument. That's one reason we all own BBQ guns. Two of which are SA revolvers :) And a pair of swords. But that isn't any reason to limit yourself to a "pretty"gun that isn't combat effective. Unless you have the entire US army to protect you, ala Patton.

Get a nicely decked out 1911 if you want a "nice" gun.

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Donald Blake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 4:04am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

De Trevni, what?!

Second, WHAT?

Thirdly, W!H!A!T!?!?!?
KBK


I think you are trapped in your own reasoning a bit there...

DeTrevni answered the question in his post:

Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

I mostly feel like a cowboy.


Sometimes self-defense is just an incidental benefit...

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 4:13am
Originally posted by Donald Blake Donald Blake wrote:



Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

De Trevni, what?!

Second, WHAT?

Thirdly, W!H!A!T!?!?!?
KBK


I think you are trapped in your own reasoning a bit there...

DeTrevni answered the question in his post:

Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

I mostly feel like a cowboy.

Sometimes self-defense is just an incidental benefit...:)


Except, no. If you want to play fancy dress, get an Airsoft revolver. Or a De-milled one. What he is talking about is honestly worse than nothing. Single action revolvers haven't been viable combat weapons since the 1890's. There is plenty better out there.

So if the DOES try use it for SD, he's even further behind the power curve than the rest of us.

This isn't MY reasoning. This is the reasoning behind the development of combat arms for the last century. Like I said, if you want a BBQ gun, get one. Don't mistake it for a SD weapon though.

We have someone from our CASS group who insists on shooting IDPA with his SAA because he insists he carries it for SD. Honestly watching him do it is a joke.

Sure he is a good shot, but shooting accurately isn't combat shooting. It is Bullseye shooting.

With 5 rounds in your gun and a 45second+ reload time engaging two targets can be a problem.

It is marginally better than someone wanting to carry a brace of flintlocks because he is a pirate.



Edited by Kayback - 01 July 2011 at 4:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 4:44am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:



Except, no.


Ah.  I keep forgetting that you are not American.

Your logic is quite impeccable, and entirely inapplicable to DeTrevni's location.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 5:01am
Originally posted by Donald Blake Donald Blake wrote:


I keep forgetting that you are not American.Your logic is quite impeccable,


It isn't MY logic. Name me one police force in the USA, or elsewhere in the world, that uses single action revolvers.

My argument is based on my own experience, which as you say is inapplicable to his, and talking with other people from his location.

You do not need to be a self defense guru to know that carrying something that's main role is to look good and make a person feel a certain way isn't based in the real world. Honestly if it makes you "feel like a cowboy" and it isn't going to be used if "more than 6 rounds are needed" then why carry it loaded at all? That's asking for trouble. And probably has no place in a discussion about CCW besides the fact the person in question will be carrying a firearm. But it will be an accessory not as a tool.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 5:45am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:


It isn't MY logic. Name me one police force in the USA, or elsewhere in the world, that uses single action revolvers.


... which is irrelevant, because ...

Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

... it will be an accessory not as a tool.



dingdingdingdingdingding!!!

(Which, hereabouts, is a perfectly normal and appropriate use for a firearm)


Edited by Donald Blake - 01 July 2011 at 5:45am
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DeTrevni View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeTrevni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 6:00am
Dude, I live in Texas. S/A revolvers are non-negotiable.

I did forget that I'd have to keep the hammer on an empty chamber. Oh well. What kind of situation would I be in that would require more than 5 shots? Besides, why would I carry an airsoft or demilled revolver? What if I actually NEEDED one of those 5 shots? Or, heaven forbid, two?


Edited by DeTrevni - 01 July 2011 at 6:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 6:17am
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

Dude, I live in Texas. S/A revolvers are non-negotiable.


lol

Brilliant line.
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Kayback View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 6:19am

Like I said ages ago
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:


That's one reason we all own BBQ guns.



You'll probably need more than two rounds. Add in the normal 80% hit rate and you're seriously running low on ammo.

But whatever. If you are accessorizing you can do what you want. I just don't get the idea of limiting yourself like that. If you are going to the trouble (And yes it is trouble) of carrying a live firearm, why an antique? You can get the same effect with superior performance.

Edited by Kayback - 01 July 2011 at 6:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 6:37am
Originally posted by DeTrevni DeTrevni wrote:

What kind of situation would I be in that would require more than 5 shots?



You'd be in a life or death struggle.

The original story was 2 bad guys, One was hit with two rounds. It ended there luckily, but if the second guy needed two rounds?

Making up scenario's is easy. Throw on another attacker and you've run out of ammo before you've put two into the third guy.

Throw in a miss (they do happen, especially under stress) and you can't shoot that last bad guy at all.

Making up scenario's is also stupid because eventually we'll be talking about multiple ninja assassins walking up walls. Go ask your local police station they'll have plenty of real world, true stories of multiple attackers.

Remember, handguns are not good weapons. They are CONCEALABLE weapons. Even cowboy revolvers in .45 Colt are at the lower limits of lethal energy and your attackers might need multiple shots. See original video. Two to the center mass and he was just injured.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 7:45am
Isn't Donald the old peter, susan, ect (and a mod)...
 
This is the guy that said Keynesian economics would be the only way out of our recession two years ago...
 
We all see how well that worked out... Confused
 
 
No offense, but I think I'd take Kaybacks advice since he lives in a very dangerous part of the world... Kind of like over the rhine here in Cincy... Shootings every day, kids shot by random bullets, murderers on many street corners.
 
When it comes to protection, I'd rather have as many bullets IN the gun as I can carry, so I don't have to reload if it all breaks down. And I always carry one in the chute. But, more important than that. I pay attention to my surroundings, and react quickly if things feel wrong, leaving the area when you feel that tingle is your best response.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceesman762 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 8:44am
Single Action .45 Long Colt Peacemaker Detrevni?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 8:58am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Isn't Donald the old peter, susan, ect ...


You just now figured that out...?    :)
 
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

This is the guy that said Keynesian economics would be the only way out of our recession two years ago...


I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.  I was and am a believer in the fundamental Keynesian principles, but I don't believe anything is "the only way out."
 
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

We all see how well that worked out... Confused


Actually, I believe that the various stimulus packages have had a significant positive effect, although certainly not perfect.  I have had the opportunity to work very closely with some of the ARRA programs over the past couple of years, and I can say without a doubt that some of these programs saved countless jobs - and arguably entire industry segments.  Other programs, on the other hand, I will fully agree were ill-conceived and of questionable value.

My personal barometer on the national economy bottomed out about a year ago, and has been on a steady (but slow) upward trend since then.  Fingers are crossed, but things are slowly looking up, IMO.
 
 
Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

No offense, but I think I'd take Kaybacks advice since he lives in a very dangerous part of the world...


I don't believe anyone here is disagreeing with Kayback on a tactical level.  Certainly if I were to carry for protection I would pretty much carry 24/7, with one in the chamber.  But, as you point out, he lives in a dangerous part of the world, and he is also a mercenary. 

Neither of those apply to most of us - including you, FE.  Sure, you maybe technically live in Cincinnati, but you live on a multi-acre spread far away from random drive-by shootings in the hood.  Overwhelmingly, we live in places, and have jobs, that realistically do not expose us to any significant danger of random violence.

As DeTrevni correctly pointed out, for him a gun is a fashion accessory more than anything else, to the point where he knowingly chose a cool gun over an effective gun.  And DeTrevni got it right.

For most of us, carrying a firearm is purely a vanity, or an irrational security blanket, or perhaps a Freudian device.  If we were truly concerned about safety, we would sell the guns and buy a car with another couple of airbags instead - or perhaps install a lightning rod by our house.  A firearm is very poor bang for the buck, so to speak, in terms of personal safety, for the overwhelming majority of Americans and Western Europeans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 9:33am
Since we have a lawyer present, I am curious. In the original OP the thread about half way through starts talking about the "other" attackers facebook, where he admits to being there for the attack right next to his "bruh, bruh" when he gets shot.
 
Then as his bragging continues he makes it clear that if "bruh, bruh" dies he will seek revenge on the shooter.
 
This guys also has 5 warrants out for his arrest. Why has he not been picked up yet, and are facebook admissions of guilt admissible in a court proceeding?...
 
I'm curious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Donald Blake Donald Blake wrote:

For most of us, carrying a firearm is purely a vanity, or an irrational security blanket, or perhaps a Freudian device. 

Ayup. 
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This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 12:02pm
But seriously, who carries without one in the pipe? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Since we have a lawyer present, I am curious. In the original OP the thread about half way through starts talking about the "other" attackers facebook, where he admits to being there for the attack right next to his "bruh, bruh" when he gets shot.
 
Then as his bragging continues he makes it clear that if "bruh, bruh" dies he will seek revenge on the shooter.
 
This guys also has 5 warrants out for his arrest. Why has he not been picked up yet, and are facebook admissions of guilt admissible in a court proceeding?...
 
I'm curious.
 
Where were these facts posted?
 
In any event, the answer to admissibility is always "depends" - depends on for what purpose you are admitting the evidence, for instance, and whether you can properly authenticate.
 
In this case, I gather you would admit a confession on facebook as evidence of guilt.  Normally that would be hearsay (almost any out-of-court statement admitted for the truth of the statement), but "statements against the interest" of the speaker (such as confessions) are an exception to that rule.
 
In the case of facebook, you would face double hearsay - you aren't automatically admitting an out-of-court statement of the defendant - instead it is an out-of-court statement (a facebook posting) that you CLAIM is an out-of-court statement of the defendant.  It is not automatic that everything on his FB page is actually his - you have to prove it.  Whether by a witness to the typing, or an IP provider who can show the originating computer, or somesuch, you will need to pass some authentication hurdle.
 
The judge will then weight the probative value of the offered evidence (in this case probably pretty high) against the prejudicial value of the offered evidence (in this case probably pretty low), and then rule on admissibility accordingly.
 
That's a quick ad hoc analysis by someone who has never seen the inside of a courtroom (other than traffic court), so don't get too carried away with it, but that's the basic analysis.
 
As to why the guy with the warrants hasn't been picked up, that's between the police and their budget.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donald Blake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by impulse418 impulse418 wrote:

But seriously, who carries without one in the pipe? 
 
That's nothing.
 
Back in the day I used to teach self-defense classes, including women's self-defense.  A very hair-raising experience for many reasons.  One particularly scary episode involved a discussion of weapons.  This particular girl had a brilliant plan.  She wanted to carry a gun to protect herself, but she didn't actually want to harm anyone (including her assailant), so she was going to carry a pistol unloaded, and then brandish it as needed, fully confident that the bad guys would immediately obey her orders and/or run away in fear upon seeing her gun.
 
I attempted at length to explain to her why this plan was somewhere between insane and suicidal, but she was determined to go ahead.  My only solace was that I figured it unlikely that she would follow through, simply because of the inconvenience of getting and carrying her paperweight.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SSOK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2011 at 12:55pm
DB: My mom wanted to keep a unloaded .45 around the house for the same reason.
 
and Kayback:
 
DeTrevni is definitely a hillbilly hippy from hell.
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