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Complete Failure of Leadership

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    Posted: 19 April 2011 at 8:37am
So last Wednesday we had a speech from Obama, where he invited Paul Ryan to come sit front and center. With the promise of an "olive" branch being offered.
 
Then we saw as Obama completely attacked Ryan, saying he wanted old people to be put on the streets, and disabled children to "fend for themselves" under the Ryan plan.
 
Unreal. Exactly the stuff that Obama promised he wouldn't do if elected.
 
He has so poisoned the well that there is no way the two parties will work together after that showing...
 
And Standard and Poors agrees. As yesterday they sent the stock market reeling by downgrading the US credit worthiness.
 
They said they only hold a one in three chance that the US will keep its AAA credit rating.
 
And what is Obama's plan to fix his massive spending...
 
By taxing the "rich" of course, good old class warefare. So typical of the left. We have seen what an utter failure keynesian economics are, and yet, every chance the democrats get, they just want to spend more on social programs and more "investments" in our future... When it clearly hasn't worked. Typcially in a recession they are over quickly, but with the government spending more than any government in the history of the world, as they are convinced this will work. Instead of recovery we get further problems.
 
And the sad thing is, many people will probably still vote for the democrats again... As the media and our higher learning are totally in the tank for these failed policies, and help to demagogue anyone who speaks out against them.
 
While blaming bush for the failed "everyone deserves home ownership" Democratic ideal that actually caused this mess to begin with.
 
Just keep spending, just keep spending...
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 8:48am
There is a very distinct line between Leadership and Management, unfortuanately Obama show the traits of niether, he is more of a follower.

One of the things Obama and the Democrats have not figured out is that the United States does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem.

And if there is a tax hike will Obama show the leadership to maintain the cost cutting and pay off the debt, or provide more money for more and ever expanding social programs. Like any good pusher, provide and addicting product, keep giving tastes of more, and the dependancy grows. That is a prime reason for Democrat re-election, the fear of going 'cold turkey' and off the addiction that has sustained multiple generations of reciepiants. The Democrats provide no 'cure' for this addiction, just provide another 'taste' to expand the addiction anymore. Maybe if we taxed the welfare reciepiant on his/her benifit like we tax the Social Security retiree on money he/she paid into the system. Yes everyone who overpays taxes should get a refund, but when 'credits' mean you can get back far more than you paid in, that also needs to stop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 9:04am
Throwing money at a problem, especially the money we don't have has rarely worked.  Expanding government, increasing spending and taxing the rich (anyone that makes $200K or more) is not going to help.  Had the democrats relented and allowed Freddie and Fannie to be more regulated thereby stopping loans for people who couldn't possibly pay them back, this recession likely wouldn't have been as bad or would have happened at all.

Edited by StormyKnight - 19 April 2011 at 9:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 9:34am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

So last Wednesday we had a speech from Obama, where he invited Paul Ryan to come sit front and center. With the promise of an "olive" branch being offered.
 
Then we saw as Obama completely attacked Ryan, saying he wanted old people to be put on the streets, and disabled children to "fend for themselves" under the Ryan plan.
 
Unreal. Exactly the stuff that Obama promised he wouldn't do if elected.
 


Yeah, exactly.  There is absolutely no place in politics for that kind of extreme exaggeration to the point were it is no more than a lie just to scare people.  Here are a few more examples of this "unreal" tactic. 

Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

 
One question. If there is a government body that rations healthcare, would that group or individual be considered a death panel?

Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

You know stuff like "death panels"... That was clearly something made up by Sarah Palin to discredit Obamacare... No way they would include that in the bill... Uh, oh... http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-budget-director-powerful-rationing-panel-not-doctors-will-control-health-care-levels/ View Post
Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

. Sounds like a death panel to me. Remember, the government knows better than you... 
Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

So, here we have Obama in his own words stating that Abortion, and "death panels" are not in Obamacare... That anyone who says they are is promoting lies, and trying to mislead the public. Who is lying?... Can you connect the dots or are you to biased to see this?
Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

Strike up a Win for Palin, and the "Mobs" as the democrats have decided to remove the "death panels" from the bill


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 9:44am
Yeah, Obama poisoned the well. Nobody on the right attacked him unjustly up until now.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-14-2011/slashdance---obama-hurts-republicans

My, what a selective memory you have, FE.

ITT: Republicans getting a taste of their own medicine. Please, continue with your hypocritical butthurt, I need a good laugh today.


Edited by High Voltage - 19 April 2011 at 9:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 10:01am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

By taxing the "rich" of course, good old class warefare.

Those poor, poor 1%. 


Just look how victimized they are with all the class warfare! 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 12:23pm
It seems concentration of wealth is high on Whale's things-that-shouldn't-be-but-are-and-deserve-attention list. As it should be. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 12:49pm
Yeah, steal from anyone who has "more" than you...
 
Why don't you work for what you get and instead of begrudging success, achieve some for yourself?
 
 
The problem with the idiology of "soak the rich" is that even if the government took 100% of the income from the top 1% of earners it wouldn't even cover ONE year of what the current demcrats are spending...
 
But, that gets ignored, while the shrieks of "tax the rich" are heard.
 
Whale are people making $250,000 a year rich? You know like the small business owner who is just trying to run a business and manage the risks from this "kill business" democratic political enviroment we live in today.
 
I had a meeting today with a guy who started a buisness 4 years ago. He decided to start manufacturing a product that is used all over the country, but is only manufactured out of the country.
 
When he started, the government was taxing his product 5 cents per box.
 
Today, FOUR years later, the democrats have increased his tax to 25 cents per box. After he has spend a fortune on new equipment, bought a building and is only now starting to get inroads on the foreign produced competition who sell based on price...
 
Oh and the sister product that is used with this product had a tax of $1 per bag. But the democrats didn't like that either, so they raised it to $25 per bag now...
 
The democrats only want to "soak" every business owner and demonize them for trying to be successful in this country that was founded on Free Enterprise.
 
And our media follows along just like whale... He will be a good little journalist, doing his masters bidding without ever questioning the false ideals it proposes.
 
"Hate the rich, those greedy, sorry, unpatriotic people."
 
That is a disgustingly arrogant world view, but clearly the democratic party loves to play that card. And even worse, the media follows along and parrots it at every opportunity.
 
 
Good old liberal bias flooding our "free" press.
 


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 19 April 2011 at 1:01pm
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerseypaint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:07pm
FE. Once again you have littered the first page of T&O with your insanely bias conservative BS.

I really don't care about your small business gripes and how some mongrel presidential terrorist is eating babies and painting the town red with communism.

If you're unhappy with the way America votes, and how things get done, email your states reps, or go run for office. Just stop whining all the time and spewing your soap box rants all over my beloved forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by GroupB GroupB wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

So last Wednesday we had a speech from Obama, where he invited Paul Ryan to come sit front and center. With the promise of an "olive" branch being offered.
 
Then we saw as Obama completely attacked Ryan, saying he wanted old people to be put on the streets, and disabled children to "fend for themselves" under the Ryan plan.
 
Unreal. Exactly the stuff that Obama promised he wouldn't do if elected.
 


Yeah, exactly.  There is absolutely no place in politics for that kind of extreme exaggeration to the point were it is no more than a lie just to scare people.  Here are a few more examples of this "unreal" tactic. 

Originally posted by FE FE wrote:

 
One question. If there is a government body that rations healthcare, would that group or individual be considered a death panel?

Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

You know stuff like "death panels"... That was clearly something made up by Sarah Palin to discredit Obamacare... No way they would include that in the bill... Uh, oh... http://www.breitbart.tv/obamas-budget-director-powerful-rationing-panel-not-doctors-will-control-health-care-levels/ View Post
Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

. Sounds like a death panel to me. Remember, the government knows better than you... 
Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

So, here we have Obama in his own words stating that Abortion, and "death panels" are not in Obamacare... That anyone who says they are is promoting lies, and trying to mislead the public. Who is lying?... Can you connect the dots or are you to biased to see this?
Originally posted by fe fe wrote:

Strike up a Win for Palin, and the "Mobs" as the democrats have decided to remove the "death panels" from the bill


 
 
I always laugh when you guys quote me, and it proves me right yet again... But, because you don't pay attention, you think you "got" me in some way.
 
Over time, Truth always wins...
 
 
"Rep. Allyson Schwartz, Pennsylvania Democrat and vice-chair of the New Democrat Coalition, has asked her colleagues to support legislation that would repeal Obamacare’s Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB).

Rep. Phil Roe, Tennessee Republican, is sponsoring the bill that would repeal IPAB, which he told TheDC was the “real death panel,” as compared to “end-of-life counseling” provisions in Obamacare that former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin once deemed “death panels.”

This one is the real baby right here – and most people missed this,” Roe told TheDC last month. “What everybody was talking about, when you saw Sarah Palin and so forth, what they were talking about these advanced directives where you sit down and there’s sort of mandatory counseling – and Medicare paid for it. This IPAB got missed – and it’s the real death panel.”"

 
So Obamacare actually has death panels. I'm shocked.
 
Oh wait...
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Yeah, steal from anyone who has "more" than you...

I'm not suggesting theft. I'm suggesting that those with the most wealth and income pay a comparable fair-share of taxes. 

\

Corporate taxes are at an all-time low, yet businesses are still complaining about how they are apparently taxed enough. A significant amount of American companies are not paying any tax. 

Not only that, but people are working for what they get. It's just that what they get has been stagnent for decades, as you can see from my previous chart. All the while the top have been making more as their taxes continue to drop: 



And I agree with you. Spending needs to be cut. But it's silly to think that cutting spending will somehow fix everything. It's a problem of revenue as well. 
 
And, FE, these small businesses are getting hosed by the top earners as well. Yet, you bravely defend the top earners: 





Edited by agentwhale007 - 19 April 2011 at 1:22pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:16pm
I didn't think it was possible for a concept that simple to soar over a head that large sitting atop a horse that high.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


And our media follows along just like whale... He will be a good little journalist, doing his masters bidding without ever questioning the false ideals it proposes.

I figure I would contrast this quote with some of FE's previous statements:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Aaand the personal attacks start. 

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 You only have attack, and belittle your opponent.

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

course that didn't fit your attack narrative

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

You attack me

So typical, and predictable.

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

That ^ is a personal attack.

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

wow... nice personal attack there... Guess you can go back to talking to yourself again...



Edited by agentwhale007 - 19 April 2011 at 1:21pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:22pm

I defend the top earners because THEY EARNED IT... 

The problem is that I NEVER hear you say, that the taxing of people that make $200 or $250,000 per year is wrong, and they are by no stretch of the imagination rich. Most small business owners take 7 years before they start making a profit... Everything about the democrats plan is to tax those making the small money, and throwing them in with the super rich.
 
It is misdirection, at best, and yet it is the push of democrats and the media all over. When it is class warfare plain and simple.
 
Again, if you took 100% of the top 1% it wouldn't even cover one year of the runaway spending, and has Obama gotten serious about cutting spending?... Nope, the only thing he has said is to cut the militiary...  and raise taxes on those making 200 or 250 and more.
 
While we are now in 3 wars...
 
Brilliant.
 
And the media talks about how he is the only adult in the room... Really?
 
We have to cut spending. YOU guys are currently putting all of your future earnings into this pile of garbage coming out of Washington, and you pretend like it won't affect you, and worse, doesn't matter. When you will be paying for Obamanomics for the rest of your lives... How many of us know people who can't get jobs now because of the mess politicians have created. But, don't worry, we will pay them anyway, even though those jobs have gone overseas until we get back into the business of supporting small business in America.
 
Course since many of you get your news from Comedy central, and ignore the issues at hand it is no wonder they take advantage of you. They know seniors wouldn't put up with it. But, the youth... They are playing you for fools. And you guys support it...
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jerseypaint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I defend the top earners because THEY EARNED IT... 

I forgot. Poor people and the middle class don't earn their money. We just get our wages handed to us on our doorstep every morning along with our newspaper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 I defend the top earners because THEY EARNED IT...
 

They earned the right not to have to pay taxes? 

Nobody is seriously suggesting to tax them for all they have. Nobody is seriously saying they don't "deserve" their earnings. 

They are asking them to actually pay their fair share of taxes, considering they have the majority of the wealth: 


And statistically pay one of the lowest levels of tax, if any at all. 


Quote The problem is that I NEVER hear you say, that the taxing of people that make $200 or $250,000 per year is wrong, and they are by no stretch of the imagination rich.
 
Taxing a small business making $250k the same rate as Exxon should be paying is silly. I don't support that. I don't honestly know anyone who does. 

The should pay a level of taxes comparable to what they earn and own. 

Quote When it is class warfare plain and simple.

Indeed. But it's the rich who are winning, by all accounts. 
 


Edited by agentwhale007 - 19 April 2011 at 1:31pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:46pm
So if the rich are winning they are doing so because the government is corrupt and they pass laws and regulations that unfairly benefit companies like GE who pays ZERO federal tax dollars because of all of the loopholes they found from the "green energy" incentives that the DEMOCRATS put in to the system...
 
But, you never talk about how the same guys you champion are the ones that cause the mess?... Why?
 
This book would help you understand why the progressive democratic viewpoint is so flawed.
 
 
"The progressive tax system is based on envy, the “resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage.” … the modern U.S. tax code was imposed in response to so-called progressives agitating against the natural inequality in wealth distribution. Basing public policy on envy teaches people to nurture their natural tendency toward this vice, instead of to resist and rise above it. It encourages everyone to think himself a victim and perpetuates resentment because there will always be something to envy."
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


So Obamacare actually has death panels. 

And the real kicker is if that is what you're using as the definition of "death panels," private insurance companies have been operating death panels for years. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:49pm
FE, respond to my post please. I'd like to know why it's ok for republicans but not anyone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

So if the rich are winning they are doing so because the government is corrupt and they pass laws and regulations that unfairly benefit companies like GE  

And pretty much every other big business that doesn't pay their own fair share. Yep. 

If it's Democrats doing it, I don't like it. If it's Republicans, I don't like it either. 

Getting some incentive to produce green technology, to a point, is fine. But them paying next to nothing is unacceptable, no matter who they support, Democrat or Republican. Especially when they continue to move jobs elsewhere and stagnate worker pay. 

The top earners are able to game the system, though, on both sides of the party spectrum. That chart of businesses who don't pay their taxes showcases that. And I bet that most of those companies heavily fund both Democrats and Republicans. 


Yet somehow the only one you bring up is GE. 

Like other issues and threads, I suspect the reasoning is "Because, Democrats." 





Edited by agentwhale007 - 19 April 2011 at 1:58pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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