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Complete Failure of Leadership

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 3:27pm
HV, I did watch the video when you first posted it. I happen to enjoy watching all the Jon stewart stuff you guys post often, btw.
 
I just hold the President to a different standard than typical politicians. As they are the commander in chief, and suppost to be leaders.
 
Obama clearly has never led, and like I said before he was elected, he would be a lousy leader...
 
And I was right. He has no clue how to make a deal, or even how to command respect. His leadership qualities are inept, and lack credibility.
 
He has never taken responsibility for anything he has done, and is always ready to lay the blame at the feet of anyone else. While always ready to take accolades even when others are the ones deserving.

(like when he claimed victory for the "largest spending cut in history"... that he was against...)
 
 
 
 
Whale, working within the system of law and regulations isn't "relative morality".
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 3:31pm
So your morals come from the law and regulations?  I always thought that morals could only come from the Bible.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


Whale, working within the system of law and regulations isn't "relative morality".

So abortions are fine? 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:


You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.
I really like that quote.
"I AM a crossdresser." -Reb Cpl


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceesman762 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:


You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.
I really like that quote.

This and it would make a great book title.
Innocence proves nothing
FUAC!!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse418 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 3:49pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 April 2011 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by Ceesman762 Ceesman762 wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:


You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.
I really like that quote.

This and it would make a great book title.
I thought it sounded very familiar based on a recent thread.

Originally posted by Ayn Rand Ayn Rand wrote:

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.
 

Since I'm getting exasperated I will follow that advice shortly as I feel these debates are getting pretty repetitive. Let's flash back 20 years. 


Act I-The Cold War ended, Al-Queda was being formed, and George HW Bush raised taxes, giving Clinton the win in 1992. Thanks to that partially to that, Clinton and congress balanced the budget (I'll give credit where it is due since I believe in co-equal branches of gov't unlike FE) paid off WWII, and ended up with a surplus. 

Act II-The DotCom bubble burst, we had a minor recession. George W. Bush was elected(notice how I'm not repeating a discredited rumor that he stole an election, which makes me less of a moral relativist than FE and others) and decided to cut taxes across the board(temporarily) to help boost the economy, which was good timing since our economy took a huge hit with 9/11 even before the war spending and exploding gas prices. Some democrats derided extending these cuts to the wealthy, which may or may not have made financial/ ideological sense and largely relied on class warfare rhetoric to make their point and didn't gain much of an audience. In the meantime, companies like GM were not adapting to rising gas prices, Bush-era market deregulation and computerized trading removed a lot of market fail-safes, and Fanni and Freddy were being horribly mismanaged. In addition to this, we were fighting two wars more expensive than WWII while keeping taxes low. Mainly lefty moon bats are freaking out, nobody pays much attention. Jon Stewart ridicules Code Pink.

Act III- Katrina, near economic collapse, bank bailouts and TARP. Russia invades Georgia, Israel cracks down in Gaza, the US launches raids in Syria. Ammo prices and weapons sales skyrocket in the US. Obama is elected, the world isn't fixed overnight, and the tax cuts are extended for every income bracket. Plenty of people on either side of the aisle are justifiably freaked out and looking for scapegoats and demagogues. Enter Glenn Beck and the birthers. Continued bailouts, health-care reform nobody likes, and a continuing recession combine with a new party concerned with the long-term consequences of unprecedented debt spending cost Democrats the House. The new party attracts some wingnuts, the media focuses on them. People in the movement deny them, then once they accept their existence, pander to them when the election cycle starts back up(Most recently Trump). 

There's your quick history lesson of the last 20 years, going light on the war details and foreign policy in general. I think it nicely explains the crazy state of politics that extends to this forum. We clearly need to balance the budget, and we have to do this with tax reform and cuts. Even those on all but the lunatic fringe of the right (FE) are saying we need to raise additional revenues, everybody (including military brass) thinks we should cut some spending. FE is proposing we cut investments in our future to include education and infrastructure since this is somehow going to help the economy, which by his definition is measured by how much the richest 2% make. According to him the rich should pay no more, if not less than they do now and the difference should be made up by some combination of taxing the lower classes more and cutting the benefits they've been paying for. Apparently to fix the country all we need to do is roll back government structure to the early 1929 since the Great Depression would have played out anyways (If not the 1830's Jacksonian era so all white men can vote and we won't have income taxes in our constitution) and our war debt will somehow disappear(After we nuke China). 

Please FE, propose how you would fix the debt without turning us into a 3rd World nation or trying to out-China China. You propose intentionally causing wages and standards of living to plummet to remain competitive and completely ignoring paying off the debt already created by wars and bailouts because you wish the spending didn't happen.  You claim to be a business expert, explain why businesses (actually private individuals since they're claiming profits as raw income)  need the money to invest in their future but the government can't invest in building an educated, healthy, populace that will have to work into their 70's in a variety of high-skilled jobs to keep us afloat and pay down the debt even in the best scenarios? Or are you betting that the world will just end so you can be carried away by your invisible sky-daddy to play a harp on a cloud before any of that becomes a reality?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 12:57am
You know why I hate getting involved in FE's discussions? He never stays on point. It's always, "stop taxing businesses because GODDAMN GOVERNMENT DEATH SQUADS and for crying out loud BRING BACK THE MORALS PEOPLE". Stay on topic dude, these arguments woud be a hell of a lot more fun.
 
A couple of things you said that bug the hell out of me-
 
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Yeah, steal from anyone who has "more" than you...
 
Since when is taxation "stealing"? Are you arguing against tax brackets, or just taxation in general? I realize you love to make wise ass comments, but seriously, if you took more time to break down your argument instead of trying to be sarcastic, this whole process would go alot smoother.
 
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I defend the top earners because THEY EARNED IT... 

There's so much wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start. Your statement defies the existence of inherited, stolen, or even just flat out "lucking into" wealth. The VAST majority of us who work our asses off our whole lives will never have the oppurtunity to live in the upper echelon. Which is perfectly fine, that's just how it works.
 
But don't sit back and pretend that billion dollar wealth is even remotely a sign of "hard work". You act as if income level = amount of effort. Wrong sir. There are lots of people in society, hell most of us on this forum, that will labor their asses off towards a goal they'll never be able to meet. And there are entire sects of academic study that focus their entire lives on studying this exact subject (ever heard of sociology-?),
 
The fact is that the idea of equal oppurtunity in our society is exaggerated at best, mythical at worst. I'm not saying capitalism or a free market is bad-just the opposite I love both-I'm just saying get off your high horse and step down to where the rest of us live-reality. Stop equating hard work with massive wealth.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 1:14am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I defend the top earners because THEY EARNED IT... 

There's so much wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start. Your statement defies the existence of inherited, stolen, or even just flat out "lucking into" wealth.


Obviously we need to pass laws defining the differences between inheritance, luck, stealing and actually working for a living and establish different taxation rates applicable to each endeavor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 1:52am
It's always nice to be reminded of why we elected you as forum President.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 4:12am
There is one slightly OT thing about FE that's always annoyed me, and I've seen it time and time again with self employed or succesful entrepreneurs. The belief that anyone still traditionally employed is lazy.

Somehow people who are self employed or entrepreneurs have worked harder than their bretheren and are entitled to more success. People who still work for a boss lack drive and motivation and don't work hard.

They seem to have no cencept of the fact people have different skills. I for one could never be my own boss. It isn't that I'm lazy or that I'm not working hard, it is just I don't have those skills.

Also in my chosen profession there is no option to go it alone.

I can however guide 12 aeroplanes through thunderstorms and squall lines from 16 000' to 3 000' for a CAT IIIb ILS in 10 minutes.

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 7:22am
There is a mindset, anyone remmember John Edwards, a Democratic Presidential candidate and his statement, "Well I earned mine", when asked why his wealth was not an issue in the tax the rich debate. George Soros also feels his wealth should be immune from the agenda he wants for others, Micheal Moore's idiotic "Jail the rich" statement in Wisconsin and not being lead off in handcuffs. The Left seems to forget thier 'rich' in this debate and the tactics they use to 'hide' thier wealth. I bet Oprah and Bruce want to pay more in taxes, as well as many Liberal/Progressives in Hollywood. And there are no evil Liberal/Progressive CEO's out there exploiting his/her workers.

Capitalism is Darwinian, where you either have the skillset to earn and maintain wealth or you do not. The Ant and the Grasshopper though written centuries ago still defines the current state of affairs, where the dependant are beginning to demand far more than the providers can sustain. A government entity or populace that demands equality in outcome by ignoring the successfulls techniques of education, and a work ethic will repeat the exercise of 1917-1989.

Many in DC as well as here do not understand that the current US Government does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. And how many times when your household checkbook is empty can you continue to spend yourself back to a positive balance. It is a family as well as a governmental fiscal impossibility.

John Kennedy's speach of 1963 where he answers and proves the merit of tax cuts to drive an economy, if given by a Republican today would be met with the starve the elderly, kill women and children rebuttal from the left. And understand that Clinton's surplus was a paperwork gimmic, and think about this a government 'surplus' means that the government taxed the populace too much, it is not the governments money it is the peoples money they confiscated by rule of law.

Many would agree to higher taxation of the 'rich' if and when the 49% that pay nothing or due to 'credits' are 'paid' far more than any amount they pay in also pay actual taxes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 7:44am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

Also in my chosen profession there is no option to go it alone.

There's the other thing he usually implies, that people always have a choice.

I get paid about $1200 a month, working full time to teach people how to fly. Taxes will grab about $200 of it. The rest goes to repay my loans. Rent and food come from outside help, and It may well be from the government if I can't get into the military any time in the next year. I work my ass off to be poor.

I can't get better paying jobs because I don't have the experience. I can't work a second job because my ability to fly safely goes down with fatigue. You can always tell me to do some other 40 hour per week job that pays more.. but don't expect to fly anywhere with that attitude, considering most US airline pilots started in similar situations to mine.

Quote I can however guide 12 aeroplanes through thunderstorms and squall lines from 16 000' to 3 000' for a CAT IIIb ILS in 10 minutes.
KBK

With adequate separation?! Have a talk with the controllers where I fly, please. KISM tower confuses tail numbers, gives ambiguous commands, and will routinely put me in between a bonehead in a Cirrus and a P-51 on overhead while I'm on final. We're told to go around for the warbirds and business jets all the time. Ground is no better. This one lady that works here just butchers the shift. Quote of the month (after 5 minutes of trying to call the freq) is "Oh, sorry. I wasn't paying attention." Another controller once told to turn into the path of a jet on final.

It's a small airport outside Orlando, which is our approach control for operations to the North. They're a welcome break from the madness we experience daily.

The rest of the problems come from the bajillion students answering to the wrong tail number. It's bad enough the tower gets confused when students don't mess up. It's a drunken party when the pilots get involved. Combined with the varied distance of downwind legs (people fly a mile or more away, a proper pattern is 1/2 for small aircraft), it's a wonder our controllers just don't quit.


Edited by Tolgak - 20 April 2011 at 7:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 9:03am
A little personal history is in order.
 
I come from a very wealthy family... If I put down the names of the companies that my family has started or financed, you would all recognize them. Cities and towns are named after my family, as they helped found the US. We have many elected officials, and I even have a relative who signed the declaration of independence.  I don't talk about it for a reason. But, it is time for you to learn what I have learned from my personal experience growing up in a family that has always had a "silver spoon" if you will.
 
Family money can be a curse, not a blessing. I know you are rolling your eyes. But, it is true. Go back 3 generations and you have my great grandfather who's family wanted his money so bad that when he died, his cousins come and BURNED his will and documents. They took what "they deserved" and left his widow (my grandfathers mom) with the house and any assets she was able to keep when the state came to collect. (still a very sizeable amount)
 
The state of PA ended up with their estate. It is now a state park.
 
My Grandfathers brothers and sisters fought over the considerable money left when his mother died. One sibling took the majority of the family heirlooms, and the others just went at it on their own, and never spoke to her again, she died alone with her stuff. My mom got in good with her (just to get said stuff) before she died, and became executor of her will and ended up getting sued because of the way she manipulated the estate for her own personal gain. The rest of the family just took the money they got, started their own businesses, invested, and grew that fortune. Because of their family name, many married other wealthy families. As money typically marries money.
 
Most of them were very successful. In fact, at family gatherings, it looks like a mercedes dealership, with signature models all over the place. Or jaguars, or BMW's. My cousin got a brand new 7 series for her 16th birthday. Her mom is extremely famous in NYC fashion scene. Their house on long island is worth hundreds of millions.
 
Her husband committed suicide. Her personal life is in ruins. But, hey, she has lots of money!...
 
Money never buys happiness. Family money is even worse, as some family members fight, steal and cheat each other out of anything they can because they don't want to work or learn from others, they just want to get it by any means necessary.
 
It is all based on greed, as people want what other people have by nature. This focus will destroy your life. And your world view helps shape this greedy viewpoint.
 
Take my parents for example. My mom was brought up in this very wealthy family, my grandmother (her mom) passed away a couple of years ago.
 
My grandmother was an amazing influence in my life. She always had time to spend with me, and would talk to me about the many issues she had seen in her life. My faith and committment to help others came from her massive contributions to society. She was kind, honest, and had integrity. I care about you guys, even though I have never met most of you. Because you are young and have a chance to be successful in life, if you make the right choices.
 
But, her daughter (my mom) went the other direction. She let greed control her life, and was never satisfied with what she had earned. She always felt she deserved more. So every chance she got, she manipulated, and stole whatever she could. Her husband (my dad) went to some of the best schools, and had a great job, but it wasn't enough, as my mom always felt she deserved the kind of lifestyle that my grandparents had... (cause life can't be good unless you have maids, cooks, and groundskeepers!)
 
 
When my grandparents on my dads side died last year, she and my dad cut me out of the will so that they could keep all of my grandparents money... And within a month of my grandmother being buried they purchased a million dollar house in NC.
 
They didn't even go to the gravesite to watch my grandmother being put in the ground next to my grandfather... All she cared about was their money. I was very close to my grandmother and grandfather and the pain is great at their loss as they were like parents to me, I am tearing up writing this. My sister and brother used them and their money while badmouthing them as they weren't from family money and "beneath" them socially, but my grandparents actually earned every dime they had. My grandfather worked his tail off for his entire life 9-5 in a steel mill, renting and saving until he could pay cash for his first house. He saved every dime he could and sent my dad to the best schools, where he met my mom...
 
He lived a modest life, worked for Huntington Alloys in WVa, and saved millions in his life. Millions that my parents will now blow in a matter of years, based on their previous history whenever they get family money.
 
My grandfather had an idea that his son would end up stealing his money, and not taking care of his wife, so he told me how much was in his will for my family, as he was very close to me and my family for the right reasons. I made sure my grandmother was taken care of until she passed away last year.
 
I know I will never see a dime of that money.
 
And you know what, I have every right to be bitter, and greedy and sue them for MY FAIR SHARE... right?
 
 
Nope, I want to earn my own way. Not because it wouldn't help having a large inheritance, but because I don't want to be part of my parents lives. Greed will destroy you, and being jealous of others just destroys your heart. I haven't talked to my parents in years. I saw them at the funeral last year, but I didn't say a word, as they have made their choices in life, and they will have to face their maker and explain why they did what they have done.
 
They never see my kids, (their grandkids) and we never visit. All because of their greed, manipulation and lies.
 
But, hey, they live in a million dollar house... So it is worth it, right?....
 
I lay my head down at night and sleep like a baby, because I don't have guilt over my head from trying to "get" stuff from others.
 
We all get to chose in life, and we can all be successful, but it takes us deciding that we will go after what we want, and keep trying until we succeed. I know this is true, as I have seen countless members of my family make something of themselves. (Now many would say it was because of their "name" but, I don't have the family name, and I have been successful...)
 
Success is what we chose to do with our lives, and what goals we make. Every single one of us has the same opportunities once we get out of school to do what we want. But, most people don't make a plan for their lives. They just let life happen to them. Then they complain about their choices, as if someone should have given them success on a silver platter...
 
Life isn't fair. If you want to get anything in life you have to go out and earn it yourself.
 
If you want to have happiness in your life, your first step is to realize that you are a sinner, and you on your own will make bad choices. You need a relationship with Christ as the foundation of your life. Personally, that foundation makes me who I am, as I realize that I am doing all that I do for the glory of God. I realize that I am a sinner, and I have to remind myself that my families money isn't "mine"... I put my trust in God to help me make the right choices in life, instead of putting my trust in my family fortune.
 
Putting your trust in government is the same thing as trusting a family fortune. It will never satisfy you.
 
But, what does satisy you is a hard days work. Building something, or creating a product, those things are satisfying, and have rewards. You may work for someone else your entire life, there is nothing wrong with that. Just live within your means and enjoy life. I have made over a million dollars not because of my family, but because of what I have learned in life, and used that life education to have fun, and work hard. All achieved with NO family money! (well, I got $1,500 inheritance from an uncle at 16)
 
And I'm not "special" anyone could do the same things I have done and achieve the same success. No matter their education (I have a degree in TV and Film production... seriously, what is that good for?) But, I really enjoyed getting my degree, I met some great people and worked hard. And that is the key, we have to do what we enjoy, and then we have to focus on being the best we can be, and teaching our children and others what we learned in our lives.
 
Just like there are thousands of people from family money, there are just as many who have made a life for themselves from nothing. That is why the abortion thing bothers me so much. Sure my family was wealthy, but my parents weren't. Our house was foreclosed on when I was 14. My grandfather (the "poor" one according to my mom) purchased it at the auction, and let my parents live there for free...  But, my grandfathers father came over from Germany to make a better life for his family. He built some of the massive bridges in New York with his bare hands. (I even have some of his huge planes that he used during that process, as they built them out of wood first, then had the beams made from metal to fit the dimensions) But, he had $50 in his pocket when he got off the boat. And his son was worth millions when he died. So don't tell me that poor people can't make it in America. Neither him, nor his son ever owned their own business. They just worked hard and moved up into management and reaped the rewards for their hard work. And the government has no ownership of that money they EARNED.
 
I don't have millions of dollars. But, I am very successful, and every single thing I have I earned for myself. I have failed many times, and I always get back up and learn from my mistakes. And I am proof that anyone can do it, if they set their mind to it.
 
I could easily have gone the other direction and let my family take care of me like many of my family has done over the years. But, they only hurt themselves with this mentality, and they never feel the satisfaction of earning their own way. But, those type of people will vote to elect people to "take care of them"...
 
And it is the exact same mentality that says, "tax the rich".
 
Trust me, YOU won't see a dime of it, if the government taxes the rich... It is all based on greed, and wanting someone elses fruits of their labor. And the ones in power will do everything they can to keep the power, not share it with you. 
 


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 20 April 2011 at 10:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 9:25am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

What I support with incentives - as I stated - was that everyone should have an option. GE should not get exclusive rights to assisted innovation. 
Apparantly they do since they contributed close to $500,000 to Obama's 2008 campaign. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 10:27am

Let us look at the current government mess, this will give you an accurate view of the mess we are in, and how it is clearly of great importance and needs to be resolved instead of politicized.

 
It will take a little reading... But, it is worth it.
 
 
Of course this type of information used to be presented in newspapers, but today, what charlie sheen is doing is much more important "news"...
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 10:28am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I just hold the President to a different standard than typical politicians. As they are the commander in chief, and suppost to be leaders.

I can go along with that. But I also expect people to treat him with the respect he deserves as the commander in chief. I didn't agree with Bush but I didn't and still don't go about calling him names.

It is one thing to be critical of his policies, it's another thing entirely when the media and members of Congress go on a 24/7 name calling rampage that would give a 4th grade bully an erection. Obama got real for a second and gave the whiny congressmen a taste of their own medicine. Maybe they, and you, could learn from this and tone it the hell down in the future? If you didn't like it when it happened once, how do you think the President feels when he faces that crap all day every day?

It is way past time for everyone to grow up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 10:36am
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

What I support with incentives - as I stated - was that everyone should have an option. GE should not get exclusive rights to assisted innovation. 
Apparantly they do since they contributed close to $500,000 to Obama's 2008 campaign. 

Which is unacceptable. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 10:37am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


We all get to chose in life, and we can all be successful, but it takes us deciding that we will go after what we want, and keep trying until we succeed. 

A wall of text when you could have saved yourself the typing and just said "bootstraps," while ignoring almost every socio-economic study ever produced. 

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 It is all based on greed, and wanting someone elses fruits of their labor. 

Yes. Yes it is. 




That greedy, selfish small blue circle wanting the big yellow circle to pay a fair share in society. When, often times, the big circle pays a far smaller percentage of taxes than the smaller circle. 

I cannot believe their greed. 


Edited by agentwhale007 - 20 April 2011 at 10:43am
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2011 at 11:54am
So where is the social/economic model where equality of outcome is guarenteed? Roman Imperialism, Greek Democracy, Parlimentary Britian, French Republic, Italian Facism, German National Socialism, Soviet Russia, Communist China, Communist Cuba, Communist North Korea, each system dispite its lofty goals turned itself into another tied economic system of just differant haves and have nots.

I do believe that the other circles would also appreciate a tax contribution from that small blue circle, who by design can actually recieve an income off tax credits and actually recieve a check for far more than any tax if any, they pay in. What is a 'fair share', paying abosolutely nothing in the lower income brackets or 32% of income in the higher. Why do I pay tax on my annual Social Security income (one that I contributed into) and a welfare reciepiant pays nothing on his/her income, is that 'fair' in the desired equation. Why are many of you subject to a pre job drug screening, and random checks during your employment, yet it is discrimination for any thought of drug testing someone recieving government benifits (see welfare).

In our society the means to achive even the Red circle are readily available. Example how many here are willing to sacrifice thier hometime for a job that pays close to $60,000, driving an Over the Road truck, few if any because of thier choice of priorities. They would rather be home each night and complaining about thier low wages and the 'rich' who keep them down. Lincoln, NE has less than 4% unemployment, and those are the career reciepiants for the most part, who constantly demonstrate on the streets or in print that those who actually work are not paying enough so they, the reciepiant, can survive at the same level as the worker. Lincoln and Lancaster County employers are now forced to shop into other states for labor and run into the same problem. Why should I uproot and move to Nebraska and actually work, when I can sit here and either work and complain about low wages and how the rich are abusing the worker, or continue to collect 'extended' government benifits. In thier view the 'rich' should move the jobs to them.

To quote John Edwards "I worked for my wealth", as he discounted his net wealth in his demonization of the 'rich', I am far closer to the Red circle than the Blue based on a life time of work. I resent not working and have tried to manipulate the system to get back to work. Crete Carrier Corperation the trucking company I worked for before all the medical issues has offered full employment at my old potential 60K pay rate, and a $10,000 sign on bonus, but yet they can not fill the driver seats with Americans willing to work in the conditions of the job. Crete is now shopping for drivers in Eastern Europe. So there are good jobs out there if you actually had the intestinal fortitude to find them, instead of quoting the standard rhetoric and posting the 'unfair' charts and graphs.

And whale as a discussion of balance, in this new world of equality of outcome whould you agree or disagree that I can just walk in and take the same job you have without all the required but unfair education and expieriance. I could just declare myself disabled and take your job, since my disability makes it impossible for me to compete fairly in the current system. Beware of what you wish for....see Argentina

As we can tell another boring day out here in the boneys, humidity is killing my legs.....

Edited by oldsoldier - 20 April 2011 at 11:55am
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