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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2010 at 8:07pm
I love BriHard. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2010 at 8:41pm
Originally posted by Gatyr Gatyr wrote:

Bri gets me Hard


LOOK! HE'S A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY!
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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2010 at 11:25pm
Maybe I'm being naive, but wouldn't a simple solution be to EXPAND DADT to include straights? Kind of like how any form of sexual conversation in the workplace is discouraged to the point of disciplinary action in civilian world?

Problem solved. No awkwardness for anyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2010 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Maybe I'm being naive,.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Glassjaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 December 2010 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Maybe I'm being naive, but wouldn't a simple solution be to EXPAND DADT to include straights? Kind of like how any form of sexual conversation in the workplace is discouraged to the point of disciplinary action in civilian world?

Problem solved. No awkwardness for anyone.

Won't solve anything if your goal is to reduce sexual interaction.  People will still form relationships, and some will take it to the point of sex, whether it be homo or hetero.


Edited by Glassjaw - 16 December 2010 at 11:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 12:01am
That's true, but isn't the real focus of this discussion the tension provided by knowledge of sexual orientation? That seems to be the going issue I've seen every time this is brought up. Why not forget the orientation aspect and go straight to the professionalism aspect. I don't worry about the orientation in the workplace because, in am ideal professional enviroment, that's not a topic of conversation anyway.

Maybe there's just something I'm missing here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 12:05am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

That's true, but isn't the real focus of this discussion the tension provided by knowledge of sexual orientation? That seems to be the going issue I've seen every time this is brought up. Why not forget the orientation aspect and go straight to the professionalism aspect. I don't worry about the orientation in the workplace because, in am ideal professional enviroment, that's not a topic of conversation anyway.

Maybe there's just something I'm missing here.

So, basically, soldiers not talking about sex?


AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

...



AAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Ahem. Sorry. OK, I'm good now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 12:19am
I kind of figured that response would come up, but again, professionalism. There's no solution to this issue that isn't going to require a whole new way of operating.

You have to pick one of two options-

A:) You treat the military as its own corner of the world and allow it to operate as such and to it's own
standards or

B:) You apply accepted professionalism standards to it.

The problem is people want the military to operate independently because they understand that it requires a completely different mindset from the civilian world, but then they attempt to apply civilian ideas to it. This is a classic case of military thinking butting heads with civilian thinking.

Me personally, I'm indifferent because I legitimately don't feel qualified to make a statement as to what the military should adopt as an operating standard.

But I do feel you have to fully apply your logic here. This dilemma goes all the way back to the discussion of how drill instructors should speak to their recruits. You have the military using terms like "conditioning" and "toughening up", but to he civilian world those ideas turn into "harassment".

So to me, you can't use the excuse of "that's just how the military operates". If you're going to apply professionalism, you need to expect professionalism. I don't see the outrageousness of expecting soldiers not to bring sex into discussion. It doesn't mean they're not going to do it-sex is a favorite topic in most workplaces that I've been in-it just means that the government doesn't endorse it. Liabilities and whatnot.

Of course, I'm also not saying that that way of thinking is the correct one. I said earlier I don't choose a camp in this debate anymore, because my opinions are highly unqualified.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 12:52am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I kind of figured that response would come up, but again, professionalism. There's no solution to this issue that isn't going to require a whole new way of operating.

You have to pick one of two options-

A:) You treat the military as its own corner of the world and allow it to operate as such and to it's own
standards or

B:) You apply accepted professionalism standards to it.



Uh, when the "workspace" is overseas and you kill people/ get killed, the rules of a "professional work environment" are entirely different than nearly any other job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 6:18am
For that matter, when you live and work with virtually the same people 24 hours a day, you get to know them pretty well.

Also, I don't know where you work that sex isn't discussed.
BU Engineering 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 8:04am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

sex is a favorite topic in most workplaces I've been in


I'd get banned for posting half of things we talk about at work. That's not what in saying-I'm simply saying that it's the stance of most employers that they do not endorse you talking about sex at work, and, if you offend someone with your conversation, you'll face disciplinary action up to termination.

I've never seen it become an issue, but if someone were offended in the workplace, then the company reverted back to policy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 10:48am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

[QUOTE=stratoaxe] they do not endorse you talking about sex at work,

And this has what to do with allowing homosexuals to openly serve in the military? 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

[QUOTE=stratoaxe] they do not endorse you talking about sex at work,

And this has what to do with allowing homosexuals to openly serve in the military? 


Gays are just sex fueled sex robots didn't you hear?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:


Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

[QUOTE=stratoaxe] they do not endorse you talking about sex at work,

And this has what to do with allowing homosexuals to openly serve in the military? 


Gays are just sex fueled sex robots didn't you hear?
Care to show me where that was even implied in my posts? Did you even read them?
 
That's why I dislike these discussions-inevitably,  it all comes down to OMG UR A HOMOPHOBE (insert cliched homophobic catchphrase).
 
Anyway, to what Whale was asking about-I posted this from my iPhone, and my idea got a little butchered for the sake of keeping it concise.
 
My point is that the dilemma that seems to be brought up in most of these discussions is that, post DADT, there will be this huge wave of sexual tension. My response is that maybe it's time to look at this as a professional matter. Sexual discrimination could be, in at least some minor way, cut back on by keeping the workplace professional.
 
Really, I'm just addressing the issue here of how the military is viewed differently than the work place in regards to sexual overtones. We overlook things (as Brihard delicately pointed out) in the military that would be legally incriminating in the workplace. We expect soldiers to behave like 14 year old boys, and to me this is at least part of the issue.
 
Now, before somebody else jumps up and freaks out, I'm not saying military personell act like 14 year old boys. Really, I'm saying the opposite-I don't think there's going to be the huge backlash against homosexuals post-DADT that is being made out. And if there is, wouldn't it be handled in the same way that it's handled in the professional world? Expanding on the idea of DADT, only rather than attacking the idea of being open about your sexuality, attack the idea of being immature about it.
 
And that's in no way directed towards gay people alone, it's people in general. I was raised in a military household, I know the ideologies. But if we're going to expect the same standards of equality we see in the workplace, we're going to have to expect the same levels of professionalism.
 
Honestly, I'm not trying to make some earth shattering claim, just a point of curiosity that I see whenever this comes up on the forum, or anywhere else.
 
INB4 LIEK HOMOPHOBE DOOD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:23pm
But my point is this: If we're going to look at this as an "Acting professionally" thing, I'm not sure how that connects with DADT at all. 

In every job I can think of having, I knew at least one openly gay person. And by "openly" gay, I mean something like someone mentioning they're significant other using the same-gendered pronoun. 

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Just the mentioning of being gay. An example, my current boss is a gay male. He mentioned that he saw me one day on my bicycle while he and his boyfriend were out to breakfast on a Sunday morning (I was biking to get the newspaper). 

I didn't find him mentioning that he had a boyfriend to be inappropriate or unprofessional behavior. 

Now, in the current military, this would be enough to get kicked out. 

DADT is not an open invitation to graphically describe your sex life. Does that happen with soldiers? Of course. But we're talking about policy here, the stuff written into the rule books. 

All the repeal of DADT will do is allow someone to say they are homosexual without discourse. Even if it is something like mentioning they have a significant other. 


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:31pm
I think were crossing wires here, Whale

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

post DADT


I was addressing the idea that in a post DADT military (after it's been repealed), there's going to be mass abuse of homosexuals and straights are going to lose their in combat because they're too close to a gay man. I think that, in a professional environment, this won't be an issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 December 2010 at 1:22pm
Senate is voting on it at 3P.M. EST today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I think were crossing wires here

Appears so. I didn't see your previous posts, sorry about that. 

For some fun, here are some calm and well thought-out reactions from the conservative forum FreeRepublic.com. They make for a really entertaining read. 

Quote This will destroy the US military, just as it has destroyed the Israeli, UK, Australian, Canadian and Germnan armed forces.
 

Quote So now that this has passed, I think they should make separate platoons of only openly homosexuals. This should be the first platoon in, as no one else would want to be in front of them.
 

Quote any assholes who supported this have been traitors and upheld the commie manifesto to any who say this is not big deal then get your head out of your ass as this now means they can say they can die for their country but cannot marry therefore they should be overturning DOMA, then it is the law recognized by the feds therefore teach it in schools and then make Revs etc marry them otherwise they are hate crimes
 

Quote By voting to repeal, it can probably be assumed that you are condoning consenting sexual encounters in the shower or the barracks.

It means that the gay lifestyle language and physical mannerisms may be displayed while in uniform and that ‘flippy’ salutes must be tolerated.

It means that cross dressing on off duty hours is acceptable when visiting social establishments on post.

And surely it means that any objection to the above will be met with instant litigation and possible charges brought against those in command.
 

Quote Democrats= party of perversion and communism. Now making the US a nation not worth fighting for.
 

Quote our finest do deserve better, than having to troll gay bars.
 

Quote I’ll no longer advise young people to sign up. I’m sure there are many others who feel the same. The military can troll for their new recruits in the gay bars.
 

Quote WHY is a gay Military a priority-issue at all for the US Senate?

I wish I could blame Reid alone, but 62 other treasonous, treacherous Senate-slime also deemed this Priority #1.

Folks, there are clearly forces behind the scenes sabotages the Republic.
 

Quote So now the openly perverted and insane will have a role in the defense of this country!
 

Quote Our nation is lost to perversion. A grim day. A grim day indeed. This is NOT what our military has fought for over 200 years. Shame on all of those who voted for Sodomy over security today!!!!
 

Quote The absolute end of ever again holding any respect for the institution of the American armed forces. Game over.
I would gladly support any portion of the military brave enough to revolt. 
 





Edited by agentwhale007 - 18 December 2010 at 2:28pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:48pm
^ This gives me a whole new reason to hope this passes.

Edit: It Passed 65-31


Edited by Eville - 18 December 2010 at 3:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 December 2010 at 4:24pm
The funny thing is that a number of those bigots never have nor never will serve in uniform.
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