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And it begins...

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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 September 2010 at 11:37pm
The Tea  Party starts single handedly derailing a promising Republican season.
 
I was afraid this kind of stuff was going to start popping up. All the distaste for President Obama, founded and unfounded alike, has really given rise to alot of conservative thinking that we didn't see even during Bush's term.
 
But from the beginning I've been preaching that the Tea Party was going to rise up in a fit of misguided egotism and pull a Ross Perot. They have just enough followers to sap the Republican vote, and just enough haters that they don't (thankfully) have a snowball's chance in Mexico to actually win anything.
 
The thinking behind this woman's very political existence is radical-as far as I'm concerned, a Republican is a Republican. Just because he's pro abortion and pro gun control means he represents the thinking of the people in that state. If that's what the people want, and that's what they've been happy with, an attempt at derailing the system is both suicidal and arrogant. As a conservative, I recognize that in winning war, you may have to white flag some battles. The Tea Party somehow doesn't think this is valid reasoning, and I've been saying all along that their radical, revolutionary way of thinking was going to be their downfall.
 
No matter how relevant or right you think you are, you're still subject to the will of the people. That's the catch of American politics. I love guns, and I'll fight for my right to own them (poltically of course), but if 80% of the country decided that guns weren't necessary, there'd be no cause left fighting for. And that's regarding my strongest political conviction-I value my second amendment right above every other issue except speech and religion. It's the reason I stay conservative in a time where conservatives are being labeled along with nutjobs like many in the Tea Party ranks.
 
America is not a country of revolution. It's a country of slow, steady change. You move the sails, not the boat.
 
So how many of you guys think this going to be a trend, or just an isolated incident?
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FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 8:39am

Do you like Olympia Snowe as a republican?

Based on your above statements, I would say you do.
 
And that is why you are wrong. She is the antithesis of a conservative government.
 
Face the facts, the country has tried keynesian economics. It was and is a utter failure. (even though the President can't seem to grasp just how bad it is, and wants to SPEND MORE)...
 
The country needs fiscal conservatives, and a shift towards the right. Not a shift towards the center...
 
 
We went hard left in 2006. And again in 2008 HARD LEFT.
 
So, using your boating analogy, The ship is about to tip over to the left, with massive debt, and huge entitlement programs (obamacare, free housing just stop paying your mortgage)... Righting the boat won't come from a shift towards the middle... The boat would still capsize in a wave.
 
We HAVE To move hard right for a while to get the boat sailing correctly...
 
Anything less, will keep us in the mess we are currently in, and the turmoil will cause years of uncertainty.
 
 
And uncertainty leads to high unemployment, every single time.
 
Methinks you should look at some other news sites besides the left stream media. This is a good thing... The republican party has ignored their base for too long. And the base is ready to put a smack down on them when they try any junk this season.


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 14 September 2010 at 8:40am
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ArthurBignose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 8:52am
None of that matters because if the Tea Party is splitting Republican votes, without a chance in hell of splitting Democrat votes, basically you're giving the election to the Dems.  Take a look at history to see how this will turn out.  During the election of 1912 the Bull Moose party effectively split the vote with Republicans and allowed a Democrat to win.

Voters are probably upset enough with the current situation that the Tea Party might get a significant amount of votes for a third party, but in the end they will NOT secure all of the Republicans votes (not mine at least) and will secure a defeat for the Republicans as well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:08am
It is a primary... with ONE winner...
 
You guys are acting like the tea party is starting a third party or something...
 
They aren't.
 
You guys also said there was no way Chris Christie would win... Too conservative... Or many others.
 
The silent majority is silent no longer. A few "centrists" will not vote, but that will in no way give the massive amount of Democrats who are now unemployed... a reason to head to the polls...
 
This election will be a bloodbath for democrats. Even the left stream media see's it... hence them trying to gin up something... anything to pin on the tea party.
 
 
They should just stick to calling us racist...
 
Sad thing is, you guys are buying into it...
 
and it is a primary.
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:15am
Polls indicate that if she wins the primary, that she has no chance of winning the overall election. If she doesn't win the seat, there is virtually no way the Republicans can win the senate majority. It will be interesting to see what happens. I would imagine if the Tea Party could be fingered as the causation of the overall loss of the Senate, it would be the death knell of the movement.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:18am
What's really sad is that you actually think you are a majority
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:35am
Originally posted by GroupB GroupB wrote:

What's really sad is that you actually think you are a majority
 
Here is a graph of the election in 2008. Red Republican, Blue Democrat...
 
Here is a graph showing states in Budget crisis. The larger the dot, the worse the crisis... Notice anything similar between the two?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:48am
In the last few elections, America has given the Keys to the car to the "intellectual elite" the brilliant educators of our country, who pride themselves on good intentions, while ignoring discipline, fiscal or otherwise. While the blatherskite media promoted a puzzlewit to lead the house.
 
 
This has brought us economic ruin... And as usual when faced with distruction, the workers of a society wake up, look around, and make changes.
 
The tea party is the best thing to happen to this country in a long time. And since there is no leader, just a set of goals. It can't be stopped by an election... It changed HOW we drive the car into the future. As the PEOPLE will drive instead of the media, and political elites...
They tremble at my name...
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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 10:26am
The bottom line for me is what Arthur said. Way back when the Tea Party movement got started I predicted this would happen (not that it took a rocket scientist...), even though all of those who supported the tea party claimed they'd never send candidates up.

If they keep this up, they'll split the party.

Also, which forumers' accounts are Arthur and GroupB?

Edited by stratoaxe - 14 September 2010 at 10:28am
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Mack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 10:32am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

If they keep this up, they'll split the party.

Also, which forumers' accounts are Arthur and GroupB?


I was originally thinking PP, but the attempts at logical argumentation aren't quite as effective and the smart-butt level is a little higher so now I'm not sure.
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stratoaxe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 10:35am
I thought Arthur was PP, but it seems as though he/she just claimed Republican.

GroupB for sure isn't PP.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 11:08am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I thought Arthur was PP, but it seems as though he/she just claimed Republican.

PP has claimed on several occasions to be fairly conservative, and has argued in favor of conservative values against FE at times. Hell, he thinks that The Wealth of Nations is one of the most important and/or influential economic texts in modern history, and has argued Adam Smith's principles of economics on this board for sure on numerous occasions.

He just seemed so liberal because he would argue, in the interest of clarifying things or just because his opponents were wrong I guess, against the silly things that OS and FE constantly purported.

I imagine PP is fairly similar to Tallen in most significant ways.

I don't think that PP is posting right now, though.
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

The country needs fiscal conservatives, and a shift towards the right. Not a shift towards the center...

I find it funny that you cite history as evidence that Keynesian economics doesn't work, and then advocate conservative principles (which I assume is equivalent to free-market principles, yeah?) of economics, as if history hasn't shown that free-market capitalism doesn't create an exorbitant amount of wealth and power concentration that is hardly conducive to a healthy society or economy.


Edited by Gatyr - 14 September 2010 at 11:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 11:13am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I thought Arthur was PP,

Agreed

but it seems as though he/she just claimed Republican.

Confusing

GroupB for sure isn't PP.

I was thinking self-trolling other account maybe.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 11:38am
I love how FE always rags on Keynesian economic theory. It helped put our country at the forefront of the world's economic powers from the mid '40's through the early '70's. And while it fell out of favor during the economic stagnation of the 1970's, there were other socio-economic factors that played far bigger roles in that issue than the mixing of the free market and public regulation.

Keynesian economics isn't what brought us to this point economically. In fact, it was the opposite, the unfettering of big banking through deregulation, which allowed our economy to become over inflated. I honestly don't think we're going to see a "double dip" recession, but growth and recovery will be slow since the infrastructure wasn't there to support the kind of economy we thought we had in the 2000's in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 12:12pm
Funny, the states (as a general rule) with a small population, very little tax revenue, less infrastructure and fewer urban centers aren't in debt.

Oh wait, that's regular old economics, and not directly related to politics.

Keynesian economics do work. There is certainly an issue with overspending (which is not what Keynesian economics is about), but using debt to bolster economic growth works.  The issue is that it has to be balanced by paying off that debt when there's lots of money in the pot.


Edited by ParielIsBack - 14 September 2010 at 12:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

It is a primary... with ONE winner...
 
You guys are acting like the tea party is starting a third party or something...
 
They aren't.

 


They kind of are. As it says the candidate the tea party is backing seems to have no chance to beat a democrat in Delaware. The one they aren't backing can. If the one they are backing wins the primary, they just lose to the democrats, it stays a democratic seat.

Note: I have read nothing about this except this article.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 7:31pm
So you guys are seriously upset that the tea party is against Mike Castle...
 
Have you looked at his voting record?...
 
Do you consider him a "republican"?
 
He voted FOR cap and tax, and has said he will vote for it again in the Senate...
 
He voted FOR TARP, and supports further stimulus...
 
Pro abortion too.
He looks to me to be a RINO...
 
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldpbnoob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 8:13pm

And again, if O'Donnel wins the primary and loses the seat, isn't that worse? Sometimes you have to play the odds.

I'm pro choice.
"When I grow up I want to marry a rich man and live in a condor next to the beach" -- My 7yr old daughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:05pm
That is why they play the game... I don't assume one candidate will for sure do anything...  Making a determination based on "what if's" and forgetting your principles seems to be silly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2010 at 9:25pm
God FE, even when I agree with you I find my self disagreeing with your reasons for thinking that way. The tea party showed promise, hell, it got Scott Brown elected in MA (I personally think Scott Brown got Scott Brown elected, Martha Coakley helped, but let's go with that). He's a relatively moderate Republican, does his best to carry out the wishes of his constituents, and was brutally attacked by Tea Party types as soon as he voted to budget our roads for the rest of the year. I'd love for there to be a movement that mainly focused on fiscal responsibility and minimal government control over citizens lives, since I lean pretty Libertarian, but you and the rest of the Ultra-Right have lumped in abortion, gay marriage, and a variety of other stupid issues that are driving away the moderates needed to have any positive public impact. Hell, you're calling Castle a RINO, and speaking of the "silent majority". Your very posts are a detriment to the success of your movement since not only are you tying the Tea Party endorsement to being re-branded Republicans, but Nixon's "silent majority" is usually translated to "closet racists". It's people like you who give the Tea Party a bad name. If anything, your idea of what it stands for is for even more ultra-right wing conservatives instead of a party that attracts the growing number of independent voters, enough with the culture wars. I know they politically expedient to drawing voter turnout by being polarizing, but a commitment to being more moderate could potentially bring out the voters(usually a majority) who don't typically vote at all.  I know plenty of liberal college students who voted for Scott Brown in an off-year election, it can be done. However, in all likelyhood it won't because too many in the media are willing to sensationalize the movement for their own political/financial gain in a sick vicious cycle of being branded as extremist wackos by the left, then the right countering it by rallying the "base" by swinging even harder to the right. TR lost the 1912 election, despite taking a bullet during a speech and soldiering on, which should have given him enough of a "bullet bump" for its sheer badassery. If we want to get the will of the majority enacted legislatively, we need a viable 3rd party to force coalition governments and compromise. Unfortunately there are too many  hard-liners with deep passions and deep pockets who will attack anyone for compromise. You could have solid Republican credentials but be in favor of background checks for gun purchases, and get run out of town on a rail. The right it seems, even more so than the left, would rather be ideologically pure and lose honestly than compromise and win. After all, the rapture is eminent. 
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