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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GroupB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2010 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Sorry,

 
VOTES by the people trump activist judge who will benefit from overturning said votes... That have national implications also overturning other states VOTES.
 
 

Not when the people vote to infringe the rights of an entire group of people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2010 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I'll agree with you on this halfway-at least for the abortion side of things. I think abortion comes down to a human life issue, and protection of human life is a core responsibility of government.


And that is a perfectly reasonable opinion to have. But that doesn't mean small government. It means government interaction and action.

Which is "big government." Which, strangely enough, isn't a bad thing.
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2010 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

VOTES by the people trump activist judge who will benefit from overturning said votes... That have national implications also overturning other states VOTES.
 


So obviously you don't support the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Right?
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2010 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I'll agree with you on this halfway-at least for the abortion side of things. I think abortion comes down to a human life issue, and protection of human life is a core responsibility of government.


And that is a perfectly reasonable opinion to have. But that doesn't mean small government. It means government interaction and action.

Which is "big government." Which, strangely enough, isn't a bad thing.
 
I think that you've exposed a problem in this discussion that has missed my attention-neither myself nor FE has actually defined small government LOL
 
I think that there's a general consensus among conservatives (or at least the centrist-minded ones that I choose to associate with) that would be better described as "minimalism" than "small government".
 
I think the term small government is kind of a trap in and of itself, because it's a spider web of ideologies that are inseperable. For instance, to protect the "life" end of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", one must protect "life" from other people (murder, rape, physical / mental injury, etc etc), which will cause intrusion on what someone feels is their right (ability to carry rocket launchers by the White House, so as not to spark a CCW debate...).
 
But then there are issues that are, in my opinoin, cut and dry. Gay marriage is one of them. Gay marriage isn't about giving a right to a homosexual. The right is already given to a heterosexual, so then the government is making an active choice to withhold that right. That's where the small government agenda has come back to bite hard core right wingers-for years they've battled small government, and yet pushed government to withhold and intrude based on a specific set of beliefs.
 
I feel that the abortion debate falls under the "minimalism" aspect of my ideology. Now whether I agree with abortion isn't the issue-I won't get into that here-but instead I feel that it's the government's business to regulate that as a form of protection, be it pro life or pro choice, it's protecting a life, or a liberty, depending on your mindset.
 
But neither FE, nor anyone else in the modern Republican / neocon / ultra con platform can correlate to me how gay marriage imposes up anyone's right except the person being denied it.
 
They simply refer me to the Bible-hence my theocracy platform.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2010 at 1:53pm
Stratoaxe: The problem is that the term "Small government," at least defined via Safire's, is a weaponized term.

It doesn't mean anything, and depending on who is using it, it can mean everything.

If it does mean less government intervention, then why do Tea Party folks claim to be the party of "Small government" when they support banning homosexual marriage, and in the case of Texas, repealing sodomy laws?

The answer is simply that "Big government" despite the gnashing of teeth that happens when it is mentioned, is not a bad thing. That is why the government exists. It is just up to the people - lovely and handsome folks like you and I - to decide where it is appropriate for the government to be taking action and where it shouldn't be.

I was asking FE what I was asking him to showcase that using wide-sweeping terms and schema like "Small = good, Big = bad!" is useless and downright silly.

Like everything else in politics, federal government intervention is a gray. Not a black nor white.


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2010 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

47% of Americans don't pay taxes. 
The top 1% of tax returns paid 40.4% of the taxes.
The top 25% of returns paid 86.59% of the taxes.

Originally posted by oldpbnoob oldpbnoob wrote:

As of 2004 the top 1% accounted for 24% of the weath, but are covering 40% of the taxes.  Top 5% accounted for 57% of the weath. Not sure on top 25%. Do 53% of Americans account for 100% of the wealth?

I don't know if the 24% in 2004 is correct, but it's definitely not the case now.


So the top 1% has 43% of the financial wealth, and the top 20% of the US has 93% of the wealth. That doesn't seem too far out of line with the proportions of taxes paid by the upper classes.


Edited by Gatyr - 17 September 2010 at 3:50pm
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