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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2010 at 9:17am
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:

even if they were doing a non-denominational/cross-religion plea to better America.

Even if he didn't explicitly mention how he would improve the US, it's Glenn Beck, and therefore it's obvious how he would have it done (or at least how he wouldn't have it done and what he would complain about), and it is therefore hard for anyone who has watched his show or listened to his radio show to believe that his rally was just about improving America, without any ancillary political motives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 August 2010 at 9:37am

bias in... bias out.

 
 
I liked this part...
 


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 29 August 2010 at 10:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 8:16am
Two rallies one day...
 
Let's look at what Martin Luther King actually said during his famous speech.
 

"I say to you today, my friends, that in spite of the difficulties and frustrations of the moment, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.”

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a desert state, sweltering with the heat of injustice and oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

"When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, “Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!”"

 There were two events. One was promoted by the Government, telling its union members that they needed to attend...

Here are some of the comments at the smaller government sanctioned event.
 
"“We will not stand silent as some seek to bamboozle Dr. King’s dream,” said Marc Morial, president of the National Urban League. “We reclaim the dream of Dr. King for the 21st century. We reclaim this dream because we are here to say we must be one nation. We stand on the shoulders of our fathers and mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers.”

Jaime Contreras, president of SEIU-32BJ, said those gathered at the Mall with Beck “represent angry white people and hate-mongering.” He added: “We will not let them stand in the way of the change we voted for!”

 
Avis Jones DeWeever, executive director of the National Council of Negro Women, drew thunderous roars when she challenged those gathered to stand up for their place. “Don’t let anyone tell you that they have the right to take their country back,” she said. “It’s our country, too. We will reclaim the dream. It was ours from the beginning.”"
"“They may have the mall, but we have the message. They may have the platform, but we have the dream.” Sharpton and other activists gathered to commemorate the 47th anniversary of MLK’s “I Have a Dream” speech, then joined hands and walked 3 miles to the site of King’s future memorial. “This is our day and we ain’t giving it away,” said Sharpton."
 
 
 
But... The words of Martin Luther King were so appropriate...
 
"This is our hope. This is the faith with which I return to the South. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day."
 
 
Then a second, larger rally... By "angry white people who were hate-mongering", who were labeled by the media as "conservatives" (interesting, as I have never seen a "liberal" event labeled as such by the media?... Why is that... I guess if it is liberal it is "correct", and conservative is the Baaaad group.)
 
 
Here are a few exerpts from that event.
 
Dr. Alveda King (Martin Luther Kings niece)
 
“I have a dream that America will pray and God will forgive us our sins and revive us our land,” King said. “On that day, we will all be able to lift every voice and sing of the love and honor that God desires of all his children.”
 
Sarah Palin
 

“We must not fundamentally transform America, as some would want," “We must restore America and restore her honor.”

“Here today, at the crossroads of our history, may this day be the change point,” “Look around you. You’re not alone. You are Americans! You have the same steel spine and the moral courage of Washington and Lincoln and Martin Luther King. It is in you. It will sustain you as it sustained them.”

Glenn Beck
 

“Something beyond imagination is happening. Something that is beyond man is happening,” Beck said” America today begins to turn back to God.”

….”It happens the same way, it has since the Burning Bush. Moses. Freedom. And then they forget. They wander ’til they remember that God is the answer. He always has been. And then they begin to trust.”
 
“Somewhere in this crowd — I know it. I have been looking for the next George Washington. I can’t find him. I know he is in this crowd. He may be 8 years old, but this is the moment. This is the moment that he dedicates his life, that he sees giants around him. And 25 years from now, he will come not to this stair, but to those stairs. And he can proclaim, ‘I have a new dream.’ That must be our goal: to raise the next great monument.”
 
 
 
 
 
By watching the media coverage, you would not have heard any of the words at the Beck rally... But, now that you can see them for yourself, does it change your opinion on the focus of the rally? Does it bother you that the government told its people to attend one of the rallies?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 9:30am
It really doesn't really change the fact that Glenn Beck is a retard of the ninth order, and needs to do us all a favor and jump off a cliff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

It really doesn't really change the fact that Glenn Beck is a retard of the ninth order, and needs to do us all a favor and jump off a cliff.
 
 
And there it is... The perfect parroting of the media, in almost a lemming like fashion.
 
Why is Glenn Beck so threatening to the liberals in media and politics?
 
Because he can pull 500,000 people to washington by himself! Name one liberal that has that kind of power...
 
It is no wonder they attack him so often and with such vitriol.
Here he is on O'Reilly
 
and Sharpton on O'Reilly for those without Fox news channel.
 


Edited by FreeEnterprise - 31 August 2010 at 1:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 3:23pm
So without sounding stupid, What was the rally meant to achieve?

The way I see American politics(/whatever this was) as an outsider is that people talk a lot without really saying anything. Was this just an inspirational speech to make everyone passionate about the current situations? Was it a show of defiance to the government? Are there any tangible targets that this was meant to achieve?

I'm sure I could look for myself and find the answers but I want it in plain English and from a supporter like you FE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 8:18pm



Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:



Glenn Beck can pull 500,000 people to washington by himself! Name one liberal that has that kind of power..




Hmm.... Didnt President Obama get something like 1.8 million people to attend his rally in Washington?



Outdoor music festivals get crowds larger than that and they have to pay for the event.



Edited by God - 31 August 2010 at 8:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

It really doesn't really change the fact that Glenn Beck is a retard of the ninth order, and needs to do us all a favor and jump off a cliff.



 

 

And there it is... The perfect parroting of the media, in almost a lemming like fashion.

 


WRONG

Being aware that Glenn Beck is an idiot is not parroting the media, it's watching the media and forming an opinion.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evil Elvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 8:44pm
Religion has no place in Politics. A man's relationship with what ever god he worships is a intimate thing between said person and his belief. To thrust a religion over another not only is unamerican it's against the Founding Father's ideal for a great Nation. If they had planned on America being a Christian/Catholic/Muslim state they would had put it in the frame work of the Constitution. But they clearly put lines between State and Religion.

Absolute Religion in a State leads to Taliban like states where the will of said God is perverted and bend to fit the agenda of those in power. America isn't turning away from God. America is turning away from Religious Institutions that while claiming to be righteous and Holy. Molest Children, Scam Member, Gossip, Stereotype and spread Fear in the name of God. Most Americans believe in some sort of Higher Power. They are just not drinking the Kool Aid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snake6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by Snake6 Snake6 wrote:

It really doesn't really change the fact that Glenn Beck is a retard of the ninth order, and needs to do us all a favor and jump off a cliff.



 

 

And there it is... The perfect parroting of the media, in almost a lemming like fashion.

 


WRONG

Being aware that Glenn Beck is an idiot is not parroting the media, it's watching the media and forming an opinion.


Tbh, I don't think anyone in the mainstream media has the balls to call Glenn Beck a retard, even though they all think it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:

Religion has no place in Politics. A man's relationship with what ever god he worships is a intimate thing between said person and his belief. To thrust a religion over another not only is unamerican it's against the Founding Father's ideal for a great Nation. If they had planned on America being a Christian/Catholic/Muslim state they would had put it in the frame work of the Constitution. But they clearly put lines between State and Religion.

Absolute Religion in a State leads to Taliban like states where the will of said God is perverted and bend to fit the agenda of those in power. America isn't turning away from God. America is turning away from Religious Institutions that while claiming to be righteous and Holy. Molest Children, Scam Member, Gossip, Stereotype and spread Fear in the name of God. Most Americans believe in some sort of Higher Power. They are just not drinking the Kool Aid.


I love you, this is perfect, and to hear it coming from a man such as yourself is good to see. This sums up my feelings on it nicely
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2010 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:

Religion has no place in Politics. A man's relationship with what ever god he worships is a intimate thing between said person and his belief. To thrust a religion over another not only is unamerican it's against the Founding Father's ideal for a great Nation. If they had planned on America being a Christian/Catholic/Muslim state they would had put it in the frame work of the Constitution. But they clearly put lines between State and Religion.

Absolute Religion in a State leads to Taliban like states where the will of said God is perverted and bend to fit the agenda of those in power. America isn't turning away from God. America is turning away from Religious Institutions that while claiming to be righteous and Holy. Molest Children, Scam Member, Gossip, Stereotype and spread Fear in the name of God. Most Americans believe in some sort of Higher Power. They are just not drinking the Kool Aid.
It's almost like you took an oath to defend such things.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2010 at 8:36am
Originally posted by scotchyscotch scotchyscotch wrote:

So without sounding stupid, What was the rally meant to achieve?

The way I see American politics(/whatever this was) as an outsider is that people talk a lot without really saying anything. Was this just an inspirational speech to make everyone passionate about the current situations? Was it a show of defiance to the government? Are there any tangible targets that this was meant to achieve?

I'm sure I could look for myself and find the answers but I want it in plain English and from a supporter like you FE.
 
I wasn't there... I was helping my brother put in a concrete porch...
 
But, I have read a lot about it, and watched a ton of it online.
 
To me the rally was to focus people back on the founding principles of our country. Restoring honor and integrity in each one of us.
 
Our country (although many try to disagree today) was founded on Judeo Christian values. We have watched as athiestic values have permiated the American system (the best in history) and the destruction that follows.
 
Until we as a country get back to God, we can't expect things to get better.

That was the goal of the meeting, to show that there is still a large part of America that believes in God. And that belief guides their principles and integrity. Because all of the freedoms we were given were not given by man... but, by God. When we take those freedoms and put them in the hands of politicians instead of focusing on God... We all suffer the loss of those freedoms.
 
Not to say athiests can't have those things too... But, looking at the large amount of corruption in politics/society and human behavior today and it is clear that the change to eliminate God from schools, and the humanistic focus has hurt the character and family units in our society.
 
I read an interesting study this morning that talks about exactly this idea, and how it breaks down the community, when certain people don't follow what is best and instead cheat the system. Typically because of a lack of a belief in God. And a focus on humanism (what is best for individual) instead of focusing on what is best for family units, or community.
 
 
"In the history of the world, every culture in every location at every point in time has developed some supernatural belief system. And when a human behavior is so universal, scientists often argue that it must be an evolutionary adaptation along the lines of standing upright. That is, something so helpful that the people who had it thrived, and the people who didn't slowly died out until we were all left with the trait. But what could be the evolutionary advantage of believing in God?"
 
Very interesting read... (and NPR too)
 
 
But, to read media reports... That is only getting one world views version of what happened, and based on the past few years of posts I have showed you how the media is hugely biased in our country.
 
Glenn Becks show last night covered the media's vs what actually happened.
 
It is very enlightening if you decide to watch it, it is the event and the coverage wrapped up in 15 minutes. If you want to skip the first 8:30 of the first video that gets to the meat of the event.
 
 
 
I have a ton of friends who went. They said they waited for over 2 hours in line for the subway just to get there...
 
I went to the Promise Keepers event back in the late 90's and stood front and center to the stage... That was a massive crowd like this, and that event changed my life. I am sure that the people who attended will never forget, and this will impact their lives as well.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2010 at 5:11pm
I have to say if this was based on religion and with Glenn Beck the way he is (political pundit) then it could have been a bit more tactful in it's approach. Sarah Palin probably should have steered clear of it.

As to the Judeo Christian values. That's bollocks. Morality is not exclusive to the Christian church.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2010 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by scotchyscotch scotchyscotch wrote:

I have to say if this was based on religion and with Glenn Beck the way he is (political pundit) then it could have been a bit more tactful in it's approach. Sarah Palin probably should have steered clear of it.

As to the Judeo Christian values. That's bollocks. Morality is not exclusive to the Christian church.


All 3 major religions were actually included in the happenings.  The true tenet behind it all was that anyone who is a follower of the main religions on Earth has one thing in common with everyone, their belief in the great and merciful God(no matter by WHAT name you call him), and that it is everything that we have in common we should be focusing on to bring us together, not the differences.
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What is an atheistic value?
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2010 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

What is an atheistic value?


Well, if I only had you to judge from, I guess it would be that of being an elitist asshat and ignoring the point someone is trying to make, if only to justify your own feelings.


Last time I checked, there wasn't a large public perception of Christians vs Atheists or Jews vs Atheists or Muslims vs Atheists, so I imagine that there wouldn't be much point in adding that group into a message trying to diffuse tension between the three aformentioned religions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2010 at 6:31pm
I am not an elitist asshat. You don't even know me brother man.

I don't see a point when the point involves Christian values vs. Atheistic values like not believing in god is bad.

On that note, I still would like to know the answer to the question.

What is an atheistic value?


Edited by jmac3 - 01 September 2010 at 6:32pm
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2010 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I am not an elitist asshat. You don't even know me brother man.

I don't see a point when the point involves Christian values vs. Atheistic values like not believing in god is bad.

On that note, I still would like to know the answer to the question.

What is an atheistic value?


Either you don't understand what I'm saying, your point of contention is with someone other than me, or you're being difficult on purpose.

It wasn't about one group's values versus the others. It was about the shared ground between the large groups outweighing the differences, and about how people should draw on their faith in a higher power, rather than the differences in a book.

I assume that you are referring to part of FE's post, but he's not really explaining the concept of the rally very well at all. It wasn't about "America should be ruled by Christians" or "proving Christians still exist in America."

I also think you're intentionally misinterpreting what FE said, because it's NOT that atheists can't hold the same values as Christians are SUPPOSED to, only that in an ideal situation, every Christian would have those values because of their religion, and an atheist could theoretically choose to value whatever they pleased.

Now, if you are looking for a reason to be contentious, go right ahead, par for the course between you two, but you're reaching. 


Edited by usafpilot07 - 01 September 2010 at 6:38pm
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