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...at what point does FE go gotcha...?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 June 2010 at 11:25pm
I've also got a daughter and I sure as hell don't want her to get involved in porn, but I do know a porn actress.

She used to be a glamour model in the UK, then came home and opened her own porn production company. Most of what she originally did was star in the films as well.

The more mainstream the porn industry, the less fringe it'll be. I know that statement is "durr" but it is true. The more out in the open it is, the more peer review there will be, the more controls you can have, the more regulated it can be. If it is forced underground you lose all control over who/where/when and how.

It isn't porn that destroyed your friends marriages. It is a lack of communication between them that lead to the failing. A healthy relationship with good communication channels will keep it from becoming an issue. IF there is mutual respect in the relationship open communication will lead to respected ground rules that will be followed. If there is already some form of rot in the relationship, issues around porn might bring things to a head, but it isn't the "cause" of the breakup.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:43am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by FROG MAN FROG MAN wrote:

Seriously though no one ever has a good answer to that. Its like saying paying for sex is illegal, unless you film it....


I think the going theory is that prostitution furthers disease, abuse (pimps aren't known for being upstanding citizens), and quite a few hookers are busted selling drugs along with sex.
That's because prostitution is illegal
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Pornography is, however, an industry by all standards. Other than freaky amateur stuff, porn is really just another type of film. It's controlled among the members of the industry, and is regulated. Mandatory AIDS checks, age verification, there are regulations that keep porn from being the vile underworld that prostitution is, at least in theory.

Of course all of that is hypothetical, I have no clue if the opposite is true of either.
The same could happen with prostitution if it were legalized and regulated. Just look at Nevada and other countries around the world.
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But the real question is why pay for sex? There are plenty of incredibly easy girls out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:46am
Wow, you guys really got sucked back into debate.

I think he has more clout then you all give him credit for...Well played. lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:03am
I think  he's all legit.

Even his LinkedIn profile is consistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:08am
The people who tend to believe that pornography has a legitimate, wide-sweeping negative impact on society also believe in a mystical sky wizard. 

Hmm. Who would have reckoned. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 5:36am
Wow...

Is this type of straw man what you learned in journalism school?

If so, it discounts your education.

How about sticking to the facts presented, instead of bashing the majority of Americans who don't have a "relative" morality problem.
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Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

The people who tend to believe that pornography has a legitimate, wide-sweeping negative impact on society also believe in a mystical sky wizard.
Hmm. Who would have reckoned.
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 7:12am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Wow...

Is this type of straw man what you learned in journalism school?



i really don't believe you actually know what the term straw man means.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 11:44am
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Wow...

Is this type of straw man what you learned in journalism school?

If so, it discounts your education.

How about sticking to the facts presented, instead of bashing the majority of Americans who don't have a "relative" morality problem.
Typing on my bberry on the way to southern KY in the CTS V! Woot!
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

The people who tend to believe that pornography has a legitimate, wide-sweeping negative impact on society also believe in a mystical sky wizard. 
Hmm. Who would have reckoned. 


While I don't agree with the way FE phrased this, and I find his approach to the topic somewhat ironic, he does have a point.

Whale's glib dismissal of the beliefs of millions of people did come across as somewhat arrogant.

. . . and I'm not even all that religious.*

*I have the same distrust/disdain for organized religion that I do for big invasive government.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:


Whale's glib dismissal of the beliefs of millions of people did come across as somewhat arrogant.

I suppose due to a combination of things, including my upbringing and being involved in current events, I've seed the damage that organized, evangelicalized religion does when it swings its cross around. 

I know that on a personal level, people do find comfort in religion and believing in a higher power. Face to face, I've got no issue with that, and I can respect it. I'm confused by it, but I can respect it. 

However, that changes when religion, (And by religion, I should point out I'm including the random grab-bag of cherry-picked morals that go along with it) attempts to interfere with my government in a way that negatively impacts the progression of this great nation. 

That's when the respect turns off and the snark turns on. 

And seeing as FE is, I am assuming, one of the types that would like to see the government reformed to reflect wide-sweeping sky wizard rules, I don't hold back. I'm assuming that based on the fact that he oft posts to fake research sites created by lobbying groups like Focus on the Family, who would like nothing more than to see the regression of this country back to the 1910s. 

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 Is this type of straw man what you learned in journalism school? 

I'm with AJ. I'm not convinced you know what "Straw man" means. I think you're just throwing it around willy-nilly. 

Please, FE, explain me stating that you believe in God is creating a straw man argument. 



Edited by agentwhale007 - 04 June 2010 at 12:12pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:20pm
i'm not sure if that was directed at me?

if so, then i actually do agree with you.

however, a straw man is an arguement based on a false premise, either a distorted view of the oponents position, or hinging on something that simply isn't true - i would agree that typically people who hold that pornogrophy is massive drain on society are also religious.

whales choice in rhetoric aside, i'm just pointing out that FE appears to think calling something a straw man immediately defeates any of a significantly wide array of arguements.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

i'm not sure if that was directed at me?


It was directed at FE, I was saying I agree with you. He has no idea what that actually means. He just knows people on the Internet tend to use it a lot when arguing, so why not throw in a couple here and there. 


Edited by agentwhale007 - 04 June 2010 at 12:22pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:24pm
^ He was saying he agrees with you that FE doesn't know what a strawman argument was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrenalinejunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:41pm
yeah, whale ninja'd me, i was refering to macks comments.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 12:43pm
I could be wrong, but isn't a straw man argument one in which you create an oversimplified caricature of your opponent in such a way as to paint that opponent less likeable as an adversary?

In which case I'd say FE is at least partially right.

That said, I agree with Whale as far his point. Much of the anti pornography research is as reliable as video game research. Much less to do with the product and more with the person. Sexual issues are entirely too complicated to sum up with OMG ITS TEH PRONZ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *Stealth* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:06pm
Pornography and Prostitution have always been around.

Guess what? It's not going any where.

Get used to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

I could be wrong . . . 

You are, but it's OK. You're not pretending to know what it means. 

A straw man argument is creating a point nobody is previously talking about just to defeat it. 

I know that's a very simplified way of describing a complex rhetorical tool, but it's the best I can do. 

Here is an example with Bob and Steve. 

Bob: I believe in point A 

Steve: Well I believe in point B 

Bob: Yeah, well point C is really dumb!

Originally posted by Wikipedia Wikipedia wrote:

To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar yet weaker proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position

If you'll notice, if FE really means what he said about accusing me of taking the straw man approach, he indeed doesn't believe in God. 




Edited by agentwhale007 - 04 June 2010 at 1:20pm
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:


Whale's glib dismissal of the beliefs of millions of people did come across as somewhat arrogant.

I suppose due to a combination of things, including my upbringing and being involved in current events, I've seed the damage that organized, evangelicalized religion does when it swings its cross around. 

I know that on a personal level, people do find comfort in religion and believing in a higher power. Face to face, I've got no issue with that, and I can respect it. I'm confused by it, but I can respect it. 

However, that changes when religion, (And by religion, I should point out I'm including the random grab-bag of cherry-picked morals that go along with it) attempts to interfere with my government in a way that negatively impacts the progression of this great nation. 

That's when the respect turns off and the snark turns on. 

And seeing as FE is, I am assuming, one of the types that would like to see the government reformed to reflect wide-sweeping sky wizard rules, I don't hold back. I'm assuming that based on the fact that he oft posts to fake research sites created by lobbying groups like Focus on the Family, who would like nothing more than to see the regression of this country back to the 1910s. 

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 Is this type of straw man what you learned in journalism school? 

I'm with AJ. I'm not convinced you know what "Straw man" means. I think you're just throwing it around willy-nilly. 

Please, FE, explain me stating that you believe in God is creating a straw man argument. 

 
wowo, the big dummy (me) gets to school you on strawman arguments.
 
who would have thunk...
 
Here this will help
 
 
 
 
and focus on this part...
 
"Reasoning

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

  1. Person A has position X.
  2. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially-similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
    1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted.[1]
    2. Quoting an opponent's words out of context i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]
    3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
    4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
    5. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version. "
Now, lets look at your original quote that I called a strawman. I will highlight the areas that pertain to why it is in fact a straw man argument.
 
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

The people who tend to believe that pornography has a legitimate, wide-sweeping negative impact on society also believe in a mystical sky wizard

Hmm. Who would have reckoned. 
 
 
I don't believe in a mystical sky wizard.
 
I follow Jesus Christ, and have accepted his blood to cover my many sins, as that is the only way to insure forgiveness for said sins. That is totally different than a mystical sky wizard. hence strawman...
 
Also, you need to check your knowledge of history, as most law in the US is based on morals, and those morals come from scripture aka the Bible.
 
As with the rest of "civilized" society, they always have laws that reflect the character and values presented in the Bible, at least as a foundation... Then over time they get corrupted, or as you like to call it "progress".
 
See the progressive movement is the one that wants to diminish belief in a higher power. They blame it on the huge issues that have come from "religion" over history, and that is always the excuse.
 
I too have big problems with "religion", as soon as you put man in charge of something, corruption follows. The sins of the Catholic church, and many other "organized" religions are perfect examples, and the Bible has lots of examples in the New Testament that talk about how we need to focus on God, and not man, as man will always corrupt.
 
 
I am not a person who will push people towards organized religion. I don't think you need to go to church to be "saved" (although I do go to church).
 
It totally has to do with your heart, and your personal relationship with Jesus... That's it.
 
But, the Bible is clear that if we open our hearts to lust (which is the goal of pornography) we will be focusing on that, which will lead to further sin.
 
 
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
 

So you don't believe in God then. 


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Also, you need to check your knowledge of history, as most law in the US is based on morals, and those morals come from scripture aka the Bible.

Where did Hammurabi get his code, then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2010 at 1:45pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


Also, you need to check your knowledge of history, as most law in the US is based on morals, and those morals come from scripture aka the Bible.

So the Christian Bible is the source of morals? 

Can morals come from other written works?
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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