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FreeEnterprise View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Ben Grimm Ben Grimm wrote:

Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by Ben Grimm Ben Grimm wrote:

 
I am curious...  which rights of yours exactly was this young man trampling?
 
fourth amendment to the constitution... Putting your information out there in an easily "searched" method is an unreasonable search.
 
 
Can we agree that WalMart is a private corporation citizen?
 
What does this have to do with wal-mart?
 
The KID took it upon himself to use my license number without my permission, and put it into a trackable database.
 
I have no beef with wal-mart, re-read my first post, my offense is with the kid.
 
If you furnish your waiter with your cc for payment, would you have a problem if they wrote down your numbers in case they "needed" them later?...
 
Would you be mad at the place you dined, or the person who "borrowed" your identity.
They tremble at my name...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 12:37pm
I have never worked at Walmart, but if their cash registers are anything like either of the other retail jobs I have worked, then there isn't a "send customers information to the government" button anywhere on it.  If it is an age restricted item, it will ask you to scan the license or enter the DOB.  If this guy did enter your license number into the register, then it was to verify that it is a valid license rather than a fake.  Your story may have some elements of truth to it, but I am with Ceesman on this one.

Further more, no register I have ever worked with gave you the option to add your own personal notes to the transaction.  Your story=fail.


Edited by Eville - 20 April 2010 at 12:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Grimm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
What does this have to do with wal-mart?
 
The KID took it upon himself to use my license number without my permission, and put it into a trackable database.
 
I have no beef with wal-mart, re-read my first post, my offense is with the kid.
 
If you furnish your waiter with your cc for payment, would you have a problem if they wrote down your numbers in case they "needed" them later?...
 
Would you be mad at the place you dined, or the person who "borrowed" your identity.
 
As others have pointed out by now, the fourth amendment (and most of the rest of the constitution) restrict government action and not private action.  The boy is a private individual and is therefore not restricted by the fourth amendment.
 
If a waiter ran off with my credit card I would absolutely have a problem, but not a constitutional problem.
 
It's Clobberin' Time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 12:55pm
You guys would poop at our license fees and registration in MA. I wouldn't mind if we didn't still have an AWB. They upped the license fees from $25 to $100 and now every gun dealer needs to have a fingerprint scanner, and that information does go to the state. They were going to up fees to $250 and require eye scans. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ceesman762 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 1:12pm
NY State for long gun is $15 for the background check, 1 minute of your time and a valid drivers license.  If you have anything legally against you, parking tickets, OOP's and the like, they deny you immediately
Innocence proves nothing
FUAC!!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyHopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by rednekk98 rednekk98 wrote:

You guys would poop at our license fees and registration in MA. I wouldn't mind if we didn't still have an AWB. They upped the license fees from $25 to $100 and now every gun dealer needs to have a fingerprint scanner, and that information does go to the state. They were going to up fees to $250 and require eye scans. 


You mean Manchuria right? Here in SC, we have tax free holidays for guns and you might have to wait 1 min for the check to clear.

(adult diapers FTW)


(Note to FE - Your only real recourse is finding a Walmart employee handbook and checking to see if the private farming of personal customer info by employees for their personal use is allowed. They are really funny about privacy in the pharmacy dept, so you might be able run the little troll through the wringer over that.)

Edited by JohnnyHopper - 20 April 2010 at 1:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

There's not really alot they can teach you, short of a full on tactical shooting course. Otherwise, they just test you on accuracy and your knowledge of gun laws.

Wow. That's extremely shady. My CHL class taught me everything from proper conflict resolution, communication strategies, gun laws, and various scenarios of engagement. We spent most of our time covering communication, and the only times it's "proper" to draw a firearm. We also covered how a gun is not the end-all-be-all solution, and the odds of you using it are exceptionally slim. I feel very prepared to actually carry, if I elect to do so. If the class you are referring to is just pulling thee trigger and gun laws, it needs to be shut down...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by Magoo Magoo wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

There's not really alot they can teach you, short of a full on tactical shooting course. Otherwise, they just test you on accuracy and your knowledge of gun laws.
We spent most of our time covering communication, and the only times it's "proper" to draw a firearm.


Which is exactly what they should be covering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GI JOES SON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 4:35pm
FE- if they actually catch someone who uses the ammo for wrong doing, isn't that worth waiting an extra minute of your time?

and relating it to your cc at a restaurant in erroneous; with credit card numbers someone can buy things, yes. but what are they going to do with a pistol permit or drivers license number?

the guy wasn't doing anything wrong with your identity. all he did was ensure that even if you gave the ammo as a gift and that ammo came up in a crime, the police would have a way of tracking where it came from, and who it went to. after the buyer, they can let the police know who they gave the ammo to. i really don't see the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by Mack Mack wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

And again, I'll raise the question, how does the CCW permit insure ANY safety on this issue?


NB4 the people with strong opinions on this subject continue to ignore the question they don't have a satisfactory answer to.

Why is driving a car a privilege, while having a gun is a right?

Driving a car is not a privilege. Driving a car on public roads is.


So owning a gun is a right, but carrying a gun in public shouldn't be.


Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Why is driving a car a privilege, while having a gun is a right?
There is no ammendment to the Constitution that ensures the right to drive a car.


Cars didn't exist then. I am sure they probably didn't feel the need to add such a right in the constitution as there weren't really licenses to ride a horse.

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Because we all know that no one would EVER carry a gun without going through the licensing process.

Because the document that states our rights as citizens doesn't mention cars.


1. Not the point. That would make them a criminal like driving a car without a license. People do this now anyway. I merely feel there should be a license because most people abide by laws. I would like most people who want to carry a gun to be trained on actually doing so.

2. Same answer as above.

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

but the idea that simply giving someone a license in any way impacts the system is questionable at best.
 
 
 


Not just simply giving someone a license.

Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by Magoo Magoo wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

There's not really alot they can teach you, short of a full on tactical shooting course. Otherwise, they just test you on accuracy and your knowledge of gun laws.

Wow. That's extremely shady. My CHL class taught me everything from proper conflict resolution, communication strategies, gun laws, and various scenarios of engagement. We spent most of our time covering communication, and the only times it's "proper" to draw a firearm. We also covered how a gun is not the end-all-be-all solution, and the odds of you using it are exceptionally slim. I feel very prepared to actually carry, if I elect to do so. If the class you are referring to is just pulling thee trigger and gun laws, it needs to be shut down...


My version was incredibly simplified, of course, but the same point I was trying to make. As prepared as you may feel to carry a weapon, there's no way to replicate real-world experience.
 
This all goes back to a point I've been making for years on the forum, which is most situations where you'll need a handgun aren't going to offer you the convenience of accessing that weapon. Drawing and using a handgun takes time that many life or death situations aren't going to give you.
 
Understand that I not only support your ability to own and carry weapons, I'm the owner of several handguns, military style rifles, hunting rifles, shotguns, rimfires, etc etc. I carry a .40 Glock in my vehicle, But I also realize that carrying a weapon doesn't guarantee my safety, and the odds of me actually being approached with a situation to use it are (both fortunately and unfortunately) slim.
 
Back to the point though, what Jmac was saying about not enjoying the idea of random people carrying unlicensed weapons. Let's just say for a moment that I were to share that fear, licensing those people would not reduce that fear even remotely. Because the people who intend to use their weapons for bad are A:) not going to license their weapons, and likely B:) aren't even carrying legitimately purchased weapons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 6:50pm
Kind of aimed at Jmac:

Who causes more deaths, people with licenses shooting when they shouldn't, or people without licenses carrying guns and shooting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:



Not just simply giving someone a license.

 
Posted my other post before I saw this.
 
I think we agree on this to a certain extent, terminology aside, in that training = good, license = meaningless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ben Grimm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Why is driving a car a privilege, while having a gun is a right?
Because the document that states our rights as citizens doesn't mention cars.
 
It doesn't mention guns either...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

Originally posted by Magoo Magoo wrote:

Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

There's not really alot they can teach you, short of a full on tactical shooting course. Otherwise, they just test you on accuracy and your knowledge of gun laws.
We spent most of our time covering communication, and the only times it's "proper" to draw a firearm.


Which is exactly what they should be covering.


Exactly.

Strat: Well, I understand that fully. However, I feel that classes and licensing is the best we can do. Well, short of popping someone in the shoulder as a rite of passage in owning a gun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evil Elvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

That seems ridiculously stupid


How so ? If a person passes the screening to purchase a firearm why not carry it concealed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Evil Elvis Evil Elvis wrote:

Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

That seems ridiculously stupid


How so ? If a person passes the screening to purchase a firearm why not carry it concealed?

Because waving it around for everyone to see is a much more effective deterrent.

And LOADS cooler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:



Not just simply giving someone a license.

 
Posted my other post before I saw this.
 
I think we agree on this to a certain extent, terminology aside, in that training = good, license = meaningless.


Exactly. A license is meaningless. It is the training that should happen. Usually when you go through training you get a license.

AKA: I think a license should be required for CCW
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 9:39pm
Originally posted by Ben Grimm Ben Grimm wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Why is driving a car a privilege, while having a gun is a right?
Because the document that states our rights as citizens doesn't mention cars.
 
It doesn't mention guns either...

Not explicitly, no, but that is how it has been interpreted.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 April 2010 at 9:51pm
Okay, so, proficiency is the cause of concern amongst the license to carry crowd. Why not do this. You have to take a driving test (written and practical) to drive a car (another analogy we've seen) and you can do it for $20 down at the DMV on any given day. Why then, are you required to shell out over $100 on average for a class and then another $25-$500 to simply apply for a CCW in most states when in reality, like a driving test, you should be able to just go down to the police shooting range and show proper handling and accuracy and take a written test? It's not like the RSOs at the police ranges are too busy to manage that....
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