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An Asteroid wiped out dinosaurs...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:01pm
yes, because comparing the universe to laptop hardware makes perfect sense. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:

yes, because comparing the universe to laptop hardware makes perfect sense. 
 
Yeah, I see your point. Human bodies, have so much less complexity than the standard laptop. Anyone can create a human, but a laptop... Man, THEY are special.
 
(jmac, my sarcasm unit is on override fyi)
 
 
 
I just find it sad that so many are happy to live their lives thinking this is it... There is no god, and they are just here for a brief period to deal with all the things life throws your way... Just because... There is no reason, no hope for tomorrow, because we all will die. And when we do die, we go into the ground, with nothing more... What a shame, as there is no point of existance with that worldview.
 
or...
 
 
You could accept that God Created you, with a goal for your life, and others lives. We all can live our lives doing our best to please Him, and becoming better individuals and helping others to grow. Raising our children to get to know this Creator God, and show them how He has impacted their lives in a positive way, when so many in our culture want to pretend that the amazing complexities of our world/universe/bodies just happened... Over billions of years of course...
 
 
I choose hope. Because that is the one thing that I agree with Obama on, Hope for tomorrow, but I put my trust in God instead of man. Man will always fail you...
 
 
 
But, we all get to choose for ourselves, while the "consensus" tells us all is hopeless...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:25pm
Or... Maybe it has something to do with the fact that life would not form here if we did not have the correct conditions present. Theres almost an infinite number of other worlds in the universe, don't you think a couple of them might just happen to have the right conditions? Just because it is possible for life to exist here doesn't means it was set up to be that way.
 
Notice that the very, very large majority of the universe cannot harbor life, but as I mentioned, as big as the universe is, there's a good chance you're gunna get it right eventually.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

I choose hope.

FE is a liberal; got it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Or... Maybe it has something to do with the fact that life would not form here if we did not have the correct conditions present. Theres almost an infinite number of other worlds in the universe, don't you think a couple of them might just happen to have the right conditions? Just because it is possible for life to exist here doesn't means it was set up to be that way.
 
Notice that the very, very large majority of the universe cannot harbor life, but as I mentioned, as big as the universe is, there's a good chance you're gunna get it right eventually.
 
You mean like the multiple examples of mutations that are beneficial that we have witnessed in man since the dawn of man?...
 
oh wait... we haven't seen that. Man today looks exactly like sciences "ancient man"...
 
 
(looks like Chewps great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandpa to me)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:

yes, because comparing the universe to laptop hardware makes perfect sense. 
 
Yeah, I see your point. Human bodies, have so much less complexity than the standard laptop. Anyone can create a human, but a laptop... Man, THEY are special.
 
(jmac, my sarcasm unit is on override fyi)
 
 
 
I just find it sad that so many are happy to live their lives thinking this is it... There is no god, and they are just here for a brief period to deal with all the things life throws your way... Just because... There is no reason, no hope for tomorrow, because we all will die. And when we do die, we go into the ground, with nothing more... What a shame, as there is no point of existance with that worldview.
 
or...
 
 
You could accept that God Created you, with a goal for your life, and others lives. We all can live our lives doing our best to please Him, and becoming better individuals and helping others to grow. Raising our children to get to know this Creator God, and show them how He has impacted their lives in a positive way, when so many in our culture want to pretend that the amazing complexities of our world/universe/bodies just happened... Over billions of years of course...
 
 
I choose hope. Because that is the one thing that I agree with Obama on, Hope for tomorrow, but I put my trust in God instead of man. Man will always fail you...
 
 
 
But, we all get to choose for ourselves, while the "consensus" tells us all is hopeless...


you do realize that there are some religious people who are not jesus fanatics such as yourself? i go to church every sunday when i dont have work yet i believe in evolution. i dont follow the bible word for word because frankly, there is no proof. do i believe in a higher being? yea sure. do i discount science? no, because there is actual proof
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:

a mutation off of a different being, in which life started out as single celled organisms
 
 
So if life "improved" when it first started, at what point did the second law of thermodynamics start to "work". Or are we to ignore that law during the "Creation" of life?...

I think you're missing something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Or... Maybe it has something to do with the fact that life would not form here if we did not have the correct conditions present. Theres almost an infinite number of other worlds in the universe, don't you think a couple of them might just happen to have the right conditions? Just because it is possible for life to exist here doesn't means it was set up to be that way.
 
Notice that the very, very large majority of the universe cannot harbor life, but as I mentioned, as big as the universe is, there's a good chance you're gunna get it right eventually.
 
You mean like the multiple examples of mutations that are beneficial that we have witnessed in man since the dawn of man?...
 
oh wait... we haven't seen that. Man today looks exactly like sciences "ancient man"...
 
 
(looks like Chewps great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandpa to me)

I just can't take you seriously. Do you even read any of the articles you post? Because they do not say what you say they do.

And it seems to me like just because you don't understand something, you clearly think it must be false. Taking the religious side of creation seems like a cop out to me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 5:14pm
 
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by slackerr26 slackerr26 wrote:

a mutation off of a different being, in which life started out as single celled organisms
 
 
So if life "improved" when it first started, at what point did the second law of thermodynamics start to "work". Or are we to ignore that law during the "Creation" of life?...


"Improvement" does not mean a reduction in entropy.  Evolution, or "improvement" as you put it, has nothing to do with thermo laws.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 5:16pm
How many times have we done this now?

Noah and his family building a boat for two of all the species in the world(except dinosaurs) is clearly more logical than any other explanation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

 
You mean like the multiple examples of mutations that are beneficial that we have witnessed in man since the dawn of man?...
 
oh wait... we haven't seen that. Man today looks exactly like sciences "ancient man"...

So if we're all created in God's image, was he black,  white, arab or asian? I'm unclear on this point.
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Yup, he actually said that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyHopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:


Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


 

You mean like the multiple examples of mutations that are beneficial that we have witnessed in man since the dawn of man?...

 

oh wait... we haven't seen that. Man today looks exactly like sciences "ancient man"...
So if we're all created in God's image, was he black,  white, arab or asian? I'm unclear on this point.


As long as God isn't canadian, I'm cool with him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

(looks like Chewps great great great great great great great great great great great great great grandpa to me)

I'm gonna go ahead and agree, that picture does bear a striking resemblance to Choop.

But 25,000 years isn't a large enough time period to allow a substantial change in species characteristics. Some changes in allele frequency for things like amount of body hair, propensity to retain body fat for warmth, facial characteristics, etc. may change, but all of those are minor, and vary very greatly today among people in the same society.

And since when is it acceptable to use evidence for your point that contradicts your other point? How are we to take you seriously when you post an article about DNA from an organism that lived 25,000 years ago when you don't believe the Earth is older than 6,000 years old?

Wait...this is FE I'm talking to.

Ahem. God agrees with me. I rest my case.

(And when you say things like 'religion gives me hope,' do you say that still not understanding why people like Karl Marx called religion the opiate of the masses?)


Edited by Gatyr - 05 March 2010 at 6:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 6:27pm
I lol'd hard at the last two replies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 8:44pm
Just to humor the troll (apologies to those who posted similar comments and I didn't credit, just skimmed the thread):

- Fossils require such exquisite conditions to form that they are very very rare.  The bones must be replaced by minerals to leave behind non-organic tissue. You may find dozens in one site because that site for a certain time period was conducive to forming fossils, or you may find none at all, it just depends on the conditions.

- (You didn't explicitly go there, but just for grins and giggles) The reason we don't always see transitory fossils between species is because, as has been modeled countless times, the transition between a group of a species to a different species occurs very quickly relative to the actual genetic changes and the fossil record doesn't often catch these events (see above point).

- Dinosaurs were wiped out due to a mix of factors, most of which we believe were brought about due to a cataclysmic asteroid impact, as you pointed out. 

- Science does not care what the Bible says, nor does it attempt to "disprove" God.  Science seeks to explain the physical world.  Religion seeks to explain the metaphysical.  The two aren't enemies. Please stop dragging up the notion that they are.

- Occasionally conditions make crazy things happen, like soft tissue being preserved in the right conditions. It's hardly implausible that we can recover DNA from a dinosaur fossil, just highly unlikely.  In this case, however, what was recovered was protein, from which we can actually determine the gene which coded for that protein. Proteins are tough bastards, they don't really decay.

- Science is still unsure of the origin of life, but that has nothing to do with evolution, that is being explained by abiogenesis and it's a hotly debated topic still. There are plenty of very plausible explanations of how life-like reactions may have begun from non-living matter and subsequently gave rise to life.  DNA, for instance, may have begun as a far simpler compound that could form polymers.  These polymers might have also had the appropriate sites to interface with amino acids which were present in early Earth's "chemical soup". Amino acids binding with these polymers and with other amino acids may have formed rudimentary proteins.  Some of these proteins might have helped make the environment for a particular polymer strand more stable, or helped these polymers replicate themselves. 

- The Earth is not a closed system, as has been pointed out.  Life does not violate thermodynamics, on the contrary, it fully complies with it.  In order to organism compounds into life, large amounts of energy is spent, resulting in a net rise in entropy, despite the fact that you just reversed the flow of entropy locally.  If life violated thermodynamics, your refrigerator would too.

- Depictions of dragons do not mean that dinosaurs lived with humans.  There are many possible explanations: Large lizards and reptiles have been around man all during his evolution.  It's easy to see that they may have formed a basis for early depictions of monstrous lizards. Additionally, if scientists found dinosaur fossils next to human fossils, in the same geological strata, with carbon (or other isotopic dating methods) dating suggesting that both formed around the same time, it would have an impact on our understanding of evolution and the history of life. You, however, argue that dragons are proof man and dinosaurs lived together, then you post an article saying that they didn't.  What are you trying to say?

- As mentioned before, the Earth's crust has changed significantly since the Earth's creation.  Actually, that's a bit of an erroneous statement because it suggests that at some point Earth's crust was at a set position.  Similar observations led researches to once believe the Arctic was a tropical paradise at a time in history.

- I haven't found any discussion of the moon moving away from Earth aside from your article, nor any journal articles mentioning it, but there are a number of theories suggesting all sorts of changes are happening in the moon's orbit so I won't rule it out.  What you need to keep in mind is that the moon hasn't been moving away from earth at a fixed rate.  It's orbit decays, so changes today aren't linearly related to what they may have been millions of years ago.  

- The Big Bang is one of the most proven theories in science, by cosmic background radiation.  I stopped reading the answering genesis article after:

Quote many scientists believe the world is old because they believe most other scientists think the world is old.

But, if you see another point in that article you think is legitimate, please post it, in your own words (no copy pasting!) and I'll be more then happy to try to explain it to you.

- Our solar system formed when a massive molecular cloud collapsed to become a Star.  The planets were formed from the leftovers of that star, most that material forming the Gas giants, with solid, rocky planets forming closer to the sun.  The formation of stars doesn't tear apart solar systems, it creates them.

- The moon doesn't make waves, it makes tides.  And these tides occur due to gravitational pulls on the ocean from the moon.  The moon was not burped out, it was blasted off of Earth.  The energy from the collision is what keeps it moving. 

Did I miss anything?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slackerr26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 8:50pm
but your logic is wrong. god is right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 9:06pm
Obviously, the forumers here who are working on degrees in physics, as well as the ones who are well educated in geology, biology, etc. are all wrong because answersingenises.org says so.
 
I keep forgetting, my physics classes are just for pretend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

I keep forgetting, my physics classes are just for pretend.


Well actually.....

nahh I'll let you find out for yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2010 at 11:33pm
Scrap yards haven't been around for millions of years, so who actually knows? The accepted theory is that your laptop won't spring out of a pile of scrap, but until we have had scrap for millions of years, it is a theory. That was a pretty bad example.

God, according to Bible thumpers is all knowing, all powerful and perfect, right? So whats to stop him setting up the entire universe like a gigantic pool shot? You set up some basic laws, you organise Helium to be lighter than Hydrogen, and set it off. Wait a couple of billion years, and lo you have today. That way you can quite rightly say God and science is right. God set up the rules, we are now just discovering them.

Science is about understanding. It isn't about excluding. If new data becomes available, you change your hypothesis. There is nothing in "science" that says God doesn't exist. All it says is we have no PROOF he exists.

The Bible is not proof of anything. The Bible is a written record that science is auditing. Some results are pro some are con. That doesn't seem too unbelievable does it? As we don't have a single complete copy of "The Bible" we can't expect things to be the same. The Bible we have today is different. It gets changed as it gets translated and interpreted.

I have a King James Bible and a New American Bible, there are differences in them, and they were printed years apart, not centuries. Even something as fundamental as The Lord's Prayer, something Jesus himself taught us is different. Holding any English version of the Bible up as Gospel is pretty damn close to blasphemy.   

Take all the comfort you want from your religion, that is what it is there for however refusing scientific advancements on account of the Bible leads to things like the Dark Ages and Crusades. Do we really want to go back there? When religious tensions are already almost at breaking point, you want to hold your religion up as proof over the one all unifying thing, superceding all other religions, even those with common beliefs?

That makes sense.

You still haven't answered a question I asked many God topics ago. WHICH Christianity is right? Catholic? Anglican? Protestant? 7th Day Adventist? Mormon? New Apostolic?

On a related note, what makes YOUR God written book more right than the others out there? Why Bible over Q'uran?

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 05 March 2010 at 11:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2010 at 12:32am
I still fail to see how you can have a strict literal interpretation of the bible, even  based on its own logic.

The Bible maintains that:

God is all powerful, all knowing, all loving and infallible

People are not

But if people wrote the Bible, and you will have to admit it's been revised and translated several times, I would think you would have to consider that what's actually written down was done by people and is therefore potentially flawed. And considering what even just the bible says about early people, there was a great deal of social upheaval and many things could be left out/ poorly recorded....

We know the old testament was not consolidated until thousands of years after the bible says Adam and Eve were created, isn't therefore likely, if not more plausible that while many events did happen, exactly how they happened is not necessarily going to be recorded accurately? Even a recently written news story can leave out important details, as you often point out, so wouldn't something as revised and old as the Bible naturally have some flaws, especially concerning events that took place long before they were written down?
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