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X7 Phenom Chopping

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    Posted: 25 January 2010 at 1:48pm
I used my phenom for the first time on Saturday, but was a little surprised that it was chopping paint. I heard that the phenom almost never chops, but mine chopped quite a bit. Does anyone know why?

Details:

-Fresh Draxxus Blaze Paint
-Balls popping in the breach, not cyclone
-Lapco bigshot barrel, and stock barrel
-65 to 70 degree weather
-Pops in electronic mode
-269 FPS

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


Edited by bolt148 - 25 January 2010 at 1:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wamba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 January 2010 at 6:09pm
I have heard recently that there have been a very few bolts that are shipped with less than 100% machining on the bolt ends.
 
I would pull the bolt, and closely inspect the forward portion for any burrs or metal shavings.  If no problems are found, I would check the feed area next.  Even a small cut in a PB will weaken the shell enough to pop it with normal bolt pressure during firing.
 
Lastly, pretend you are a paintball and climb from hopper all the way through to the barrel connection point, feeling for any sharp "leftovers" that may have been missed.
 
I've known 2 Phenoms that have done this, and it was fixed by removing small burrs from the bolt end.
 
Of course, Tippmann customer service is top-notch.  Send it in for diagnosis. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bolt148 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 January 2010 at 1:09pm
Thanks for responding! Thats kind of what I figured was the issue, and I checked the bolt and the cyclone. I didnt find anything, but i will take a closer look before I use it again this weekend. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. I guess this is a tough topic because I haven't received hardly any responses! And Im not new to paintball Smile

Update: Does Anyone know if replacement bolts are available for the Phenom? The front end of my bolt is pretty rough.


Edited by bolt148 - 28 January 2010 at 8:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CooterShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2010 at 2:45pm

I have the same issue with mine - purchased 12/28/09.  I took it to the shop a bought it and the tech there whom is very experienced, could not find any flaws with the marker and gave it back to me (he said all is good).  I took it home and again same issue with no improvement...  I have not been able to play a single game since I purchased it and it is now in transit to Tippmann.  Huge dissapointment to say the least.  Balls break in mech mode and electro alike and all breaks are at the bolt or in the barrel.  I'm fortunate to have 2 very nice back-ups in my A5 and X7 to have not ruined 3 trips out completely.

* I shoot evil or Marbs and have run both through the marker - same result 
* I have changed barrels from stock to 16" CP, Flatline (has worked flawlessly on X7 for over a year), and    20" JJ Ceramic - same result
* Velocity has been under 290 at all times and I have switched cyclones from my X7 as well as A5 - same result. 
* C02 or compressed - same result
 
I have no visible flaws to any of the components or internals on mine however.  I'm confident that Tippmann will get it fixed, but just want to be sure that others that may have this issue can know that it is NOT an isolated issue. 


Edited by CooterShooter - 30 January 2010 at 2:49pm
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bolt148 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bolt148 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2010 at 6:29pm
Well its good to hear that  I'm not the only one! I will be interested to hear what TIppmann says, I am still waiting for them to call me back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monkeytennis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 February 2010 at 9:53pm
I had that problem the last game I had, I chopped paint every round which annoyed me, the first time i used it i only chopped a few. Since then I got a Straight Line barrel, so it could be that or bad paint (it did have dents in pretty much every ball). 

After doing a little search some people have had rough ended bolts and not been fully finished on the edges, apparently if you sand it down it helps a lot. (so some people have said) so I have done this and will be testing it this Sunday, if it helps I will let you guys know. 
I'll try get a picture up of my bolt (haven't got a before one but the holes in the middle of the bolts face had quite sharp edges) i'm guessing if it hit the ball hard enough it could of sliced it.

EDIT - seems someone has already said this, sorry. :P

EDIT - This seems to have helped ALOT! Out of 3000+ balls I got 2 breaks.

Edited by monkeytennis - 21 February 2010 at 5:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bolt148 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2010 at 12:15pm
I called Tippmann and had them send me a new bolt. Ironically enough, the bolt that they sent me was worse than the one that is installed on my marker! So I did a little test. I pulled out the old bolt and unwrapped the new one. I took a piece of toilet paper and draped it over my hand. I then took the original bolt and pressed it against the toilet paper, and I slowly rotated it. Immediately the bolt cut through the toilet paper. I conducted the same test with the new one, and it tore a hole right through it!

So to make a long story short, I sanded down the bolt with some fine grade sand paper and conducted the test again. This time, it took me applying excessive force on the bolt, to tear the paper. Much better!

So if anyone is having this issue, don't go to Tippmann. I had to wait like three weeks, when all you have to do is sand down the bolt very carefully (5 minutes). I have been a Tippmann owner for a long time, and it saddens me to see that they are using such shoddy machining. It also makes me wonder when they claim to test fire every weapons before they send it out. It would seem that this is not true, otherwise they would have caught these issues right away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CooterShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 February 2010 at 9:43pm

So...  I just received my Phenom back from Tippmann.  Looks like the fix on this from them is sanding down the bolt as well.  I haven't gotten it out to test yet.  But after hearing some more feedback on the bolt being a issue, I'm guessing that should solve it.  I only wish that I would have been offered that as a suggestion when I called in.  Could have saved the shipping and not having the gun for the past month.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman209 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2010 at 7:59pm

I had the same problem. In the center of my bolt there was a sharp point. I took a paintball and pushed it against the bolt, and sure enough it dimpled my paintball. I took a dremmel tool and took the point off along with all the burs. now it is smooth as silk. I have not had a break since.

Wipers are Cheaters!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CooterShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2010 at 12:12pm
So after getting my Phenom back after being shipped off to Tippmann for a month, and 3 balls fired.  What do think happened???  CHOP!  Unbelievable...  For what I can tell, it looks like Tippmann's finest filed/smoothed down the front bolt to fix the problem.  Only problem is that it didn't work = GARBAGE.  I'm completely baffled on how this could happen.  Certified dealer couldn't fix the issue after 2 chances, and now even Tippmann can't fix the problem.  Absolute B.S. at this point and can't be more dissapointed in Tippmann Customer Service for completely wasting my time and money (had to pay shipping).  After 3 and a 1/2 months since purchase, I still have yet to play a game with my Phenom.  Now I'm just waiting for some genius tech to tell me that I should switch from Evil and Marbs to see if it's the paint...  I will be placing a friendly phone call first thing on Monday and am going look forward to testing the customer service reputation these folks have built their business on.  If I am asked to send it in one more time, this will be my last Tippmann.   There is absolutely no better way to start off a day of paintball than to find out that your marker has come back yet again - unfixed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman209 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2010 at 12:43am

When you send a gun into tippmann they dont just change parts and send it back, they test it. I am sure that it worked fine over there or they would not have sent it back. Honestly dude, I dont think its right that you sit here and bash tippmann, and there costomer service. They stand by there products. Why dont you try some different paint... whats ur bore size? what size is your paint? Evil is very soft. and are you sure that its chopping? or are you having barrel breaks? Something that you are doing is wrong. how cold is it over there? brittle paint and cold air dont mix. switch paint and see what happends... I use a mid grade paint with my phenom, and i have my gun shooing 20-25 balls a second. and have never had paint in my barrel, and I have shot 10 cases through it. take off your bolt and rub you finger on the bolt. is it rough? if it is then thats the problem. what is your setup? maybe i can help you... but bottom line is that the phenom is a great gun, and once you figure out the problem you are going to have a blash with this gun!

Tippmann Phenom
.689 14" custom products barrel
Apex tip
Ar-15 vented shroud
Butt Stock
 
Wipers are Cheaters!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CooterShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2010 at 9:31pm
Not trying to redirect any frustration toward you Hitman, but my Phenom set-up is listed above.  I'm not bashing Tippmann in this instance.  I am however expecting accountability beyond a set of pro Tippmann Homer Goggles that some may chose to have.  Customer service starts on many different levels, and not only at the point of contact from a dissatisfied party when a problem arrises - see Toyota.  From a world class organization, I would expect proactive measures to address flaws in a particular model or product.  Phenom being the case in point.  If you don't believe or understand this - see X7OG.com.  Under the Phenom threads you will find that there a great many of us whom are experiencing the same difficulties.  I have also just learned that the Flatline barrels do not match up with the Phenom and are creating breaks as well.  It is dissapointing that there has been nothing said about this and unknowing consumers like myself will continue to purchase Flatlines and will suffer the same frustrations as many others have.  Again, proactively addressing these issues would earn even more respect while also saving some face to the very loyal customer base that exists.  It is 100 times harder to gain confidence than it is to lose it.  I love my A5 and I love my X7.  I'm hoping that I will say as much about my Phenom some day...
You can talk about how fantastic Tippmann customer service is all day until you are blue in the face.  If you hear a dog barking behind you.  Are you going to wait until it bites you in the ass before you turn around?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman209 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2010 at 10:44pm

I hear you... I was the one on that website informing all about the flatline, because i too bought the flatline and learned the hard way that it does not work with the flex valve system. I had contacted tippmann directly and they told me that they were working on the problem. The moment i took my flatline off the barrel breaks stopped. I got tired of waiting so I sold the flattline barrel and got the apex barrel system. I wish you luck in getting your gun working. After getting all the bugs out... it has been my best tippmann yet

Wipers are Cheaters!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slim and shady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2010 at 9:31pm
Help would be appreciated!
 
I used my phenom this weekend, it was 10* above freezing, paint was new and keept at room temperature (draxxus rec sport) Marker was chronoed to 275 using HPA all day and chopped 1 out of every 10 balls at best sometimes every 4 or 5. Tried different paint (3 different kinds in total including frostbite) yeilded no better resaults. Marker was cleaned and re lubed before I would try each new kind of paint.
I sanded the front of the bolt and that helped alot I only chopped about 1 in every 75-100 balls after that. The balls would go through the barrel with very little effort to blow them through so bore size I think is out. There was little to no paint that would go into the cyclone. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to tame the chopping?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote callmepainter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2010 at 12:33am
Yeah good to hear I'm not alone. What a dissapointment!!! 

Bought mine 2 weeks ago. I changed to Squishy paddles in feeder and even bought a new barrel. Found out after the 9th time of cleaning my marker full of paint that it was the front face of the bolt that kept breaking the balls. I found small burrs of aluminum on the front edges and face. Since that piece never comes in contact with anything metal and it's brand new, it could not have occurred during usage. Sure enough it breaks about every 10-15 shots. I was going crazy!

< ="utf-8">
Lost faith in having tippmann provide me with one and I shouldn't have to dremel a $500 marker. Ridiculous!

Are there any good after market bolts for the X7? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hitman209 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2010 at 11:55am
I have not seen any yet, If i come across one i will post it here. Glad to hear you fixed ur gun! I Switched to RPS Premium after grinding my bolt. And i Have shot 10 cases though it and have not had one break!
Wipers are Cheaters!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2010 at 6:13pm
I contacted Tippmann regarding the rough X7 bolt faces. Here's what they had to say:

Quote Although, we have only a few complaints come through regarding ball breakage on the Phenom, we
had noticed the same roughness on the bolt that you identified.  Thus,
we've added a tumbling process which eliminates the roughness.  We do
not believe this to be a significant quality issue, but if it comes up
again on the forum, suggest they call customer service and request a new
bolt, they will receive the new, smoother version.


If you're having success after smoothing the bolt yourself, stick with it. But if it continues it sounds like Tippmann has a fix available.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TK7873 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2011 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by CooterShooter CooterShooter wrote:

Not trying to redirect any frustration toward you Hitman, but my Phenom set-up is listed above.  I'm not bashing Tippmann in this instance.  I am however expecting accountability beyond a set of pro Tippmann Homer Goggles that some may chose to have.  Customer service starts on many different levels, and not only at the point of contact from a dissatisfied party when a problem arrises - see Toyota.  From a world class organization, I would expect proactive measures to address flaws in a particular model or product.  Phenom being the case in point.  If you don't believe or understand this - see X7OG.com.  Under the Phenom threads you will find that there a great many of us whom are experiencing the same difficulties.  I have also just learned that the Flatline barrels do not match up with the Phenom and are creating breaks as well.  It is dissapointing that there has been nothing said about this and unknowing consumers like myself will continue to purchase Flatlines and will suffer the same frustrations as many others have.  Again, proactively addressing these issues would earn even more respect while also saving some face to the very loyal customer base that exists.  It is 100 times harder to gain confidence than it is to lose it.  I love my A5 and I love my X7.  I'm hoping that I will say as much about my Phenom some day...
You can talk about how fantastic Tippmann customer service is all day until you are blue in the face.  If you hear a dog barking behind you.  Are you going to wait until it bites you in the ass before you turn around?
 
Hay Dude,
Have you got your marker sorted yet?
Im new to PB and got a phenom, there are a few tips that I can give that I have done:
 
 Remove and clean the bolt and power tube, I noticed alot of flashing that haddent been removed from the main casings, on the bolt file the edges of the cutouts on the front of the bolt to make them smooth, clean the cyclone feed plug also, cleand the hole that it plugs into on the power tube this was full of flash, I also smoothed off the sharp edges of the bolt spring (just me being anal) clean the gas line as well, lightly re lube and put back together.
Turn up the velocity  and give it a go using a full tank (HPA 300 Bar) and watch the cyclone to see if it is feeding / working
Keep us posted
 
 Daz
If its still chopping try resetting the board back to factory
Enjoy life as much as you can
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2011 at 5:31pm
year old topic...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Binga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2011 at 9:25pm

Hey guys. Good to hear that someone else is having the same troubles. I have sent my Phenom back to Tippmann 3 times now. They are amazingly fast and seem to be all about helping their customers, but have not been able to fix my ball breaking problems. The 3rd time, I insisted that they replace the gun with another. (I knew SOMETHING was wrong with my gun because my buddy has an identical setup and we shot the same paint side by side, mine broke 1 out of 20 balls and his broke none) I just shot it tonight. MUCH better. I shot almost a whole bag of 500 Spectrum paintballs and broke 10. Not bad, but still enough to leave you cleaning your barrell while the guy with the 98 custom snipes you off with his flatline. So I have not taken it apart to check the bolt yet but am incouraged to hear that this has been a solution for so many of you. I also plan to "pretend I'm a paintball" and check the entire path for burrs/sandable roughies.

Here are my questions:
If I see paint in my cyclone, does that mean that the cyclone is chopping or could it be blowback from the breach?
 
Also: Has anyone used squishy paddles (it makes sense to me) and are they an improvement?
 
Also: What IS the best paint? What paint does the Tippmann techs use? (because they told me that they ran 3 hoppers through it trying to get a break, it must be some really good paint)
 
Thanks!


Edited by Binga - 30 January 2011 at 10:43am
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