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oldsoldier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:56am
Seldom has a Dem blamed his failures on him/herself. Carter, Clinton played the blame game, yet if the Rep (Bush) stated the it was Clintons fault the same Dems replied take responsibilities for your own actions, stop blaming Clinton. Another double standard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 8:29am
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

We've realized we are talking to a wall, but we are too opinionated to entirely give up.



Thank you for proving my point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 8:57am
Originally posted by usafpilot07 usafpilot07 wrote:


Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

We've realized we are talking to a wall, but we are too opinionated to entirely give up.

Thank you for proving my point.
I am aware of that. I wasn't trying to disprove it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 9:51am
Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Less scrutiny gets deals done quicker.
Yes, the pesky details we aren't privy to that might make a whole lot of difference in the bill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 9:55am
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

If they releases the bill at every step of the way it only cause more confusion about what made it into the final bill and what didn't.
Better to be confused and let somebody clarify than let a bad bill get passed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:01am
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Less scrutiny gets deals done quicker.
Yes, the pesky details we aren't privy to that might make a whole lot of difference in the bill.


You're missing the point.

Debate over these details would cost the democrats valuable time, and possibly the bill altogether. Their backs are to a wall. Either get it done quick fast and in a hurry or potentially lose the one vote that they've got which could almost promise that this goes through.

So, rather than risk that, they're running for gate as quickly as they can, with as few people 'in on it' as they can manage to prevent even an iota of dissension that would stall this long enough to lose it.

I'm highly inclined to believe that the hush hush sense of urgency here is directly tied to the MA senate race. I've yet to see it proven otherwise. And if it IS, then you really can't argue that everything isn't being crammed into as little time as possible to prevent the bill's overall loss. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:02am
This guy probably won't be heard in the closed Democrat meetings...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:09am
Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

This guy probably won't be heard in the closed Democrat meetings...
 


He's probably already a candidate for death panel consideration.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote StormyKnight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by StormyKnight StormyKnight wrote:

Originally posted by mbro mbro wrote:

Less scrutiny gets deals done quicker.
Yes, the pesky details we aren't privy to that might make a whole lot of difference in the bill.


You're missing the point.

Debate over these details would cost the democrats valuable time, and possibly the bill altogether. Their backs are to a wall. Either get it done quick fast and in a hurry or potentially lose the one vote that they've got which could almost promise that this goes through.

So, rather than risk that, they're running for gate as quickly as they can, with as few people 'in on it' as they can manage to prevent even an iota of dissension that would stall this long enough to lose it.

I'm highly inclined to believe that the hush hush sense of urgency here is directly tied to the MA senate race. I've yet to see it proven otherwise. And if it IS, then you really can't argue that everything isn't being crammed into as little time as possible to prevent the bill's overall loss. 
No, I'm not missing the point.  I understand completely.

Edited by StormyKnight - 18 January 2010 at 10:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:57am
Yeah I stopped watching that video when he said "we are going to punish the 85% of americans who have earned health care benefits"
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:16am
I just wanted to comment on the current state of politics and political discussions that some people touched on.
Politics aren't fun to debate anymore. I don't know when it happened, but somewhere along the way, all this hyper-partisanship has utterly ruined everything. People are no longer willing to listen to the other side with any kind of patience or open-mindedness.

I'm not blaming either "side", because that's where this trouble starts. People stop thinking of our situation as "we're all in this together", and instead, it becomes "us vs. them, my guy vs. theirs".

What I've seen on this forum, in my family, and in the media saddens and sickens me. I'm not talking about Democrats or Republicans. I'm talking about American politics. I used to enjoy keeping up with politics and discussing things, but now, it's just a drag. The people around me seem so ready to tear the president apart over things that don't even matter, it's just draining.

The whole thing has just made me entirely disenchanted with politics. I really don't ascribe to any party anymore. I don't think I'm ever voting again. I just wish we could actually get meaningful work done without each party demonizing the other constantly. I don't think the 2 party system is working for us right now.

No matter who is in power, democrat or republican, it doesn't really matter. You still have the status quo, you still have 2 wars in the middle east, and you have crap legislation being pushed like the universe is going to end if it isn't passed tomorrow.

I'm done with politics. I'm not supporting this system until it stops all this ridiculous fighting and blame-pointing. Maybe this all sounds idealistic, but I cannot support either party anymore. I don't feel they represent my interests anymore.

Also, I'm going to apologize for this rambling rant that I've thrown together this morning. It hasn't been what I'd call an ideal morning, and I'm just getting things that have been on my mind out there.

edited for grammar


Edited by Benjichang - 18 January 2010 at 11:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:26am
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Yeah I stopped watching that video when he said "we are going to punish the 85% of americans who have earned health care benefits"
 
Yeah, you're right, from everything I'm finding via Google, it's somewhere around 84%.
 
The variable figure of American's who were uninsured in 2005 was somewhere around 15-16%, according to this  , this , and this.
 
I thought I found a CNN article that listed it has double that amount, but they were a tad misleading in their article, in that their figures were a two year average of those who were without insurance for six months or more at a time.
 
But from best I can see, the number is right at 15-16%.
 
That being said, also according to various of those sources, around 20-23% of that 15-16% are noncitizens-so the numbers are again, a tad misleading.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:43am
Originally posted by stratoaxe stratoaxe wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Yeah I stopped watching that video when he said "we are going to punish the 85% of americans who have earned health care benefits"
 
Yeah, you're right, from everything I'm finding via Google, it's somewhere around 84%.
 
The variable figure of American's who were uninsured in 2005 was somewhere around 15-16%, according to this  , this , and this.
 
I thought I found a CNN article that listed it has double that amount, but they were a tad misleading in their article, in that their figures were a two year average of those who were without insurance for six months or more at a time.
 
But from best I can see, the number is right at 15-16%.
 
That being said, also according to various of those sources, around 20-23% of that 15-16% are noncitizens-so the numbers are again, a tad misleading.



What does your post have to do with mine?
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stratoaxe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:56am
-?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:02pm
I am curious as to why you quoted me and went on some rant about the numbers
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I am curious as to why you quoted me and went on some rant about the numbers


What? Really?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I am curious as to why you quoted me and went on some rant about the numbers


What? Really?


Yeah really.

My post had nothing to do with the number.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:15pm
American Politics have not been this polarized since 1858. Yes it is a war of ideology, and getting worse. Just legislating in a legal, open forum is gone by the wayside, closed door deals and buying votes (Ne and LA) has become a norm and raises little attention, or is ignored. Voting numbers are down, yet complaints are up. This health care wheeling and dealing is a prime example of agenda politics, to punish one class and to reward another. The rich legislators majing sure they are immune then punishing other successfull individuals and institutions (people, banks, industry) with high taxes, and rewarding another class (the poor?)to ensure a dependable voting base. Simple economics when the dependant finally outnumber the producers the fall of the empire is final, many examples in history. The Brown election is important, because with a Brown win it forces a bi-partisan approach to this legislation, gets it back in the open, and returns the 'checks and balances' as demanded by the Dems when the Republicans held all three branches. What scares me is when a media pundit for the left Ed Shultz on his national show states that to 'cheat' in the election to ensure Brown does not win is acceptable.
http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2010/jan/16/ed-schultz-id-cheat-keep-brown-winning/
And no-one seems alarmed at this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I am curious as to why you quoted me and went on some rant about the numbers


What? Really?


Yeah really.

My post had nothing to do with the number.


Then why even mention it? Why so clearly point out the segment where you stopped?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

I am curious as to why you quoted me and went on some rant about the numbers


What? Really?


Yeah really.

My post had nothing to do with the number.


Then why even mention it? Why so clearly point out the segment where you stopped?


Because he acted like the 15% of people who don't have insurance have never earned it.
Que pasa?


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