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Ok guys...is this one justified?

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Eville View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Not justified at all. It was just a katana, it wasn't a gun.  Don't the police get clubs anymore?  That should have been more than enough to defend themselves with, especially if they used their training.

This is retarted, same goes for jmac.



Oh the irony.

I am going to take a break from me winning the debate now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:35pm
Seriously, way to be able to spell when saying something like that.

Why don't you explain to me how I am being retarded?

This guy had no gun, and they killed him. They could have backed up 10 feet and tried to talk him down rather than just blasting him with a taser.


Edited by jmac3 - 15 December 2009 at 4:36pm
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Not justified at all. It was just a katana, it wasn't a gun.  Don't the police get clubs anymore?  That should have been more than enough to defend themselves with, especially if they used their training.

This is retarted, same goes for jmac.



Oh the irony.

I am going to take a break from me winning the debate now.


The only thing you're winning is the silver medal in the 'facepalm' contest.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:47pm
No, that's cool guys. Don't keep the puns going. 
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:48pm
Was the use of the tazer justified in this case?

100% yes.

The guy was a direct threat to the lives of the people around him, including the police officers. If he had had a gun, they'd have shot him- mentally challenged or not. You don't risk the lives of multiple people in the off chance that you can safely put down a man wielding a deadly weapon.

If the man keeps going after being tazed once, are the police justified in using the zapper again? 100% yes. What else are they supposed to do? Now they not only have a mentally unbalanced man with a sword on their hands, they managed to piss him off even more, probably upping the chance of him doing damage if they try to use some alternate method of restraint.

If anything, I commend them for attempting to use a non-lethal method of putting the guy down rather than just aerating his skull with a few 9mm holes- which would have ALSO been justified.

The guy ends up dead. Its unfortunate, but I don't see any reason at all to claim that the actions of the police officers were not justified.

You guys with your "They should have used their training to end this differently" are not going to be happy until a police officer is killed are you?


Edited by Reb Cpl - 15 December 2009 at 4:49pm


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:49pm
Jmac, your solution to EVERYTING seems to be "walk away and talk to them".

Can you walk away faster than he could run?

Seriously, why don't you take your mad ninja talking down skills and become a polcie negotiator?

Quote Scheck said Adams' death is the first incident involving the use of tasers since Hampton police started using the devices in 2003.
.

It is now 2009. Nearly 2010. That's 6 years of what you call blatant overuse, with one death.

It is very very hard to talk down mentally unstable people. What's more is a Tazer is meant to be use in situations where going hands on is a bad idea. This describes a crazy guy with a sword to a T. You are putting yourself at serious risk by getting inside the reach of the guy's sword. Somethig you'd have to do with everything besides a firearm or a Tazer. Or your mad ninja talking skillz of course.

Why is it you only see a firearm as a reason to Taser someone? A firearm is a reason for two to the center mass,

In the 10 year old thread you said you could see the need to tazer if she had a weapon. This guy had a weapon, now Tazers are bad again?

That was about the most unsubtle troll you've ever done.

Same with Eville. Batton against a sword? Honestly? Grow up.

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reb Cpl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

No, that's cool guys. Don't keep the puns going. 


Can I help it if I don't always care to take a stab at silly jokes?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Originally posted by carl_the_sniper carl_the_sniper wrote:

Originally posted by Eville Eville wrote:

Not justified at all. It was just a katana, it wasn't a gun.  Don't the police get clubs anymore?  That should have been more than enough to defend themselves with, especially if they used their training.

This is retarted, same goes for jmac.



Oh the irony.

I am going to take a break from me winning the debate now.

Yes, spelling is really important.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

You guys with your "They should have used their training to end this differently" are not going to be happy until a police officer is killed are you?


The mad thing is, THEY DID USE THEIR TRAINING. And this is how it ended. Yet somehow this training isn't enough, or isn't right, or doesn't meet with Jmac's level of police training.

Quote
Division policy dictates that officers who carry Tasers ....must be properly trained and undergo annual recertification.


Wierd that.

KBK

Edited by Kayback - 15 December 2009 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Reb Cpl Reb Cpl wrote:

Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

No, that's cool guys. Don't keep the puns going. 


Can I help it if I don't always care to take a stab at silly jokes?


I'm going to cut in here for a second with my opinion:

*Puns off, my actual opinion*

While I tend to think that police have roundly overused Tasers (They are a name brand BTW, like Kleenex) largely because 1) The "It's a new toy" mentality, and 2) While it can be easily used in a positive way to fill the gap between lethal and non-lethal situations, it cal also be used the other direction negatively, in situations where it is not needed and "diplomacy" would work just as easily...

...This is just not one of those situations. Dude had a deadly weapon and didn't go down after one attempt.


"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:



That was about the most unsubtle troll you've ever done.



Oh really?


Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flurry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 5:14pm
ok, guys the suspect had a SWORD.  SWORD = deadly force.  Yes the cops could have backed off...and backed off, and backed off.  But going on that line of thinking they could also close down all of the PD's and let social workers take over the country's problems. 
The death was not planned.  Look at half of the vids of people being hit with a taser.  Most of them get the ride twice if not more.  The taser is designed as a less than lethal device.  The baton aka "CLUB" most departments that have tasers don't carry batons anymore.  I know of alot of dept's that don't carry pepperspray because some sprays have been known to catch fire when the person gets the taser after being sprayed. 
I know that it was a sword...now lets look at the whole "Back off 10 ft." thing.  A person can make well over 10 ft even after being shot in a very short time.  A lot of officers have been hurt and killed because they have tried to use non lethal force on someone with a blade.  That is a mistake that has been learned from by most of LE.   
When it comes down to it the guy had raised a sword against LE and the officers attempted to use a less lethal device on him, but that failed.  Perhaps the guy was on some sort of drug, or had a pre existing heart problem.  Confined space + rageing adult male with a sword = Very bad.  Police are not trained to sword fight a blade against a metal baton "There are still plastic PR24 batons in use out there".  Police are trained to use lethal force when matched with lethal force.  These officers attempted to use less lethal force but the suspect died anyways. And durring the time they waited for the family to get there with a key for the door I am sure the officers were attempting to talk with the suspect. 
And just to get it outta the way, Most police depts don't have the rubber bullets or bean bag shotgun shells or riot shields.  We would have to be driving full sized vans to carry half of the things that people think we carry in patrol.
Just a katana....There are officers that have been stabbed with screw drivers, sissors, ice picks, and other assorted sharp objects.  If any of you run toward an officer with something like that and expect to get a hug...you're outta your mind.
It sucks being antisocial alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Flurry Flurry wrote:

Police are not trained to sword fight


This needs to be corrected.
"So when Romney wins in a landslide, what will the liberal media do?"
This Ma**edited**hine Kills **edited**as**edited**ists.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

Originally posted by Flurry Flurry wrote:

Police are not trained to sword fight


This needs to be corrected.


Agreed. Should have taken lessons from this guy while they had the chance.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 5:36pm
They did. The lesson was next time just shoot him because Tazers are unreliable.

KBK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 5:44pm
I agree 100% with the use of Tasers given the situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carl_the_sniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 6:19pm

Maybe if they had of shot him, you could have made a reasonable (yet still wrong) argument for the use of non-lethal force. Or even the abolishment of tasers.

But lethal force was what was employed. There were of course incidents where tasers have killed in the past (as well as numerous other types of non lethal force by the way.. pepper spray and batons included) but no officer ever fired a taser expecting to kill someone. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 8:15pm
Did the Katana test on a frozen pumpkin with a $20 yard sale replica. From the draw was able to halve the pumpkin, then proceeded to slice it into thin cookies easily. Frozen pumpkins are thicker and more dense than a human neck. For the finale I re-stacked the cookies on  the chopping block and tried to chop the whole mess in half, I succeeded in shatter the blade into three pieces on the block. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 8:32pm
Props to Jmac for a well executed troll.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bolt3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2009 at 8:34pm
I'm usually against the use of tasers in many of the articles posted here ...

This is not one of them.

Like has been repeated above, they could have just whipped out their gun and shot him. Instead, they genuinely intended to subdue him with the tasers.

This situation is exactly what they were made for.
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