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High Voltage View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2009 at 1:52am
You're missing the point, Pariel, they're simply overpriced.

Anyway, I hooked up all my new hardware and swapped it out tonight after my RAM was delivered. This new chip is awesome. I just tweaked my RAM to run at full speed and have determined I will probably replace this dinky little intel cpu fan soon. Gotta say my system is much quieter now.

I ran TF2 earlier to see what all this horsepower can do. Back on the old P4 and 2GB of RAM I was dropping to 10 FPS during intense firefights in-game. Now the framerate doesn't ever dip below 80. I really should test it again with the ram speed corrected.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2009 at 2:29am
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

Stick staying in my ass.

You've basically pulled out every uninformed hard core PC-user reason for not buying a Mac, and ignored my point entirely.

And that's coming from someone who uses Windows 90% of the time.


Actually, he repeatedly owned you in an argument and you still haven't realized it. LOL

You claim Mac OS is better than windows because it is more stable. On which hardware setup is this the case? Mac OS has a relatively small set of configurations it supports, as stated earlier, while Microsoft tries to support anything and everything. Apple's efforts are concentrated on a smaller set of hardware configurations so it is far less likely that you will encounter issues bound to the OS itself. However, I have yet to see a hardware configuration that was not supported by Windows out of the box. Obviously you don't want a gaming computer using the Windows graphics drivers but do they work well enough for you to use the system? In my experience, this has been the case every single time. I've never had XP or Vista tell me it didn't recognize my CPU or other critical components and prevent me from using the OS. For other devices (of which MS could not and should not try to natively support all of), you simply install drivers included with the product in order to help Windows talk to it. Pretty simple and allows you to use virtually anything with the OS. Any problems experienced are not the fault of Microsoft as they only determine/create the API's used by developers to make their devices work on the OS. It's up to those developers to make the drivers properly. Blaming Microsoft for crap drivers made by other companies is like blaming Ford for the poor driving of some random guy in an F-150.

I have had Windows machines running rock solid at my house for years (excluding the times I tinkered with things that were best not tinkered with). My first computer ran XP pretty flawlessly since SP1 and only blue-screened a handful of times which I quickly found out was due to Nvidia drivers, not Windows itself. A driver update or two solved that. That PC was retired roughly 4 years ago for my current desktop which started with XP SP2 and now runs SP3 and has yet to blue-screen on me. Also, I overclocked the snot out of it (1.8 GHz to 2.6 GHz) which often significantly increases the chances of making the OS unstable. Between those two computers, I've swapped tons of components in and out and connected all kinds of crap and never really had any major problems. My laptop came with Vista and has worked absolutely fine since I got it 2 years ago. I have never had a single problem with Vista itself. I had an issue with my DVD drive popping itself open occasionally but I fixed this with a firmware update. Again, nothing to do with Microsoft. I should also note that a lot of devices I hooked up to this Vista system were recognized by the OS and didn't require drivers to be installed. I simply plugged them in, let Vista set them up, and then used them. The system is still rock solid and I've been doing tons of schoolwork on it and installed all kinds of crap in the process.

All this nonsense about Vista sucking is largely due to Microsoft rushing Vista out before giving developers enough time to support it in their drivers and software. This led to tons of driver issues (again, these drivers are not made by Microsoft) which people wrongly blamed on the OS because they don't understand how a computer or the OS really works. If you want to call Vista a turd because it uses up more resources than an OS should and because UAC is extremely annoying and largely ineffective, then I'd say you have a point. However, this is not what you're saying. The point you have been trying to make was understood. The problem is that you're wrong and when you got called out on it, you failed to provide a convincing counter-point or any proof to back your claims. Instead you decided to be condescending and arrogant which made you look even more foolish. I too suggest removing the stick as foreign objects inside the body can lead to infections.

EDIT: Also, HV, congrats on the new system. Mine is still quite capable but I'm still itching to do some serious upgrading. I'm still running a dual-core opteron (Socket 939) and DDR400 RAM. I at least got an 8800 GTS a while back but I'm still a few generations behind. I have a copy of Windows 7 and I just got a new job so hopefully I'll be able to start the new year off with a snazzy Core i7/DDR3 system on W7. Until then, I envy you sir.


Edited by mod98commando - 19 December 2009 at 2:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2009 at 11:58am
Originally posted by mod98commando mod98commando wrote:

Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

Stick staying in my ass.

You've basically pulled out every uninformed hard core PC-user reason for not buying a Mac, and ignored my point entirely.

And that's coming from someone who uses Windows 90% of the time.


Actually, he repeatedly owned you in an argument and you still haven't realized it. LOL

You claim Mac OS is better than windows because it is more stable.


Again, I'm pointing out why people buy Macs.  As I've mentioned before, I use Windows.

I have somehow been "owned" in an argument that Apple's profits already shows I've won.

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

You're missing the point, Pariel, they're simply overpriced.


Again, explain to me how this is a problem?  People don't buy anything based solely on it's price.

Otherwise people would never buy Mercedes, and I can tell you from my town alone Mercedes is making a profit.


Edited by ParielIsBack - 19 December 2009 at 12:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2009 at 2:26pm
Your analogies are horrid and often wrong or misplaced. I beg to differ with you about people never buying anything based solely on price. I've worked retail, I've seen lower priced items go much faster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koolit32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2009 at 4:45pm
<---- Accepts all opportunities to post about his computer.

Case: Lian Li PC65B
Motherboard: Biostar T5 XE
Power Supply: Corsair CMPSU 750W
CPU: Intel Quad Core i7 Lynnfield 2.8GHz
Heatsink: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
Memory: G.Skill 4x 2GB DDR3 1600
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Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX275 1.75GB
Monitor: 24" Samsung Syncmaster
Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech MX5500
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OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (I like it...)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 December 2009 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Your analogies are horrid and often wrong or misplaced. I beg to differ with you about people never buying anything based solely on price. I've worked retail, I've seen lower priced items go much faster.


You're really arguing that Apple is not a luxury brand?

Your logic appears to be that because Apple sells more expensive computers, people should only buy PCs.  Do you really not see how that doesn't make any sense?


Edited by ParielIsBack - 19 December 2009 at 5:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2009 at 1:40am
Pariell, I'm almost regretting razzing on FE for his brick wall-like skills.

Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:



You're really arguing that Apple is not a luxury brand?


Luxury \Rightarrow \!\, "Better"

A Mercedes, from my woefully limited understanding of cars, is a luxury car because it has nicer features, a more powerful engine, better handling, etc.  Clearly a Mercedes is "better" then the cars produced by, say, Ford.

Apple does not use better parts.  They do not have software that can do things PCs can't. They look prettier, perhaps, but beyond that the differences are mostly personal choice. 

Now, I will agree that Apple computers may be a "luxury" in the sense that you are buying something like a "status" symbol (even then that's a stretch, more like Calvin Klein Jeans Vs. Wrangler Jeans (I'm assuming that Calvin Klein is still one of those trendy brands, and that Wrangler isn't considered as such?), in the sense you're buying a brand), but there are plenty of PCs of which the same is true, many lines which are dedicated to sleek looks and aesthetics. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2009 at 2:50am
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Your analogies are horrid and often wrong or misplaced. I beg to differ with you about people never buying anything based solely on price. I've worked retail, I've seen lower priced items go much faster.


You're really arguing that Apple is not a luxury brand?

Your logic appears to be that because Apple sells more expensive computers, people should only buy PCs.  Do you really not see how that doesn't make any sense?

Darur is spot on. Also, why is everything taken to extremes with you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2009 at 9:30am
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

I beg to differ with you about people never buying anything based solely on price. I've worked retail, I've seen lower priced items go much faster.


Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:


Your logic appears to be that because Apple sells more expensive computers, people should only buy PCs.


Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:


Darur is spot on. Also, why is everything taken to extremes with you?


Somehow I'm taking this to extremes?  Mmmk...

Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

Pariell, I'm almost regretting razzing on FE for his brick wall-like skills.

Luxury \Rightarrow \!\, "Better"

A Mercedes, from my woefully limited understanding of cars, is a luxury car because it has nicer features, a more powerful engine, better handling, etc.  Clearly a Mercedes is "better" then the cars produced by, say, Ford.

Does Mercedes make a better pickup truck than Ford?  Do they make a faster car than Chevy's Corvette? I don't know, but I don't think so.  At the same time, I know a lot of business people from my home town wouldn't be caught dead driving a "crappy" American car, no matter what it's benefits are.  The mindset of college students buying Macs is exactly the same.

Quote Apple does not use better parts.  They do not have software that can do things PCs can't. They look prettier, perhaps, but beyond that the differences are mostly personal choice.


And that argument makes sense -- if they were selling PCs like everyone else, and if they didn't have their own retail store as well

Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:


 Bodies, keyboards, and mice are part of what sell Macs.


The other parts are the Apple image, and the actual customer support they provide.  Yes, if you were only buying hardware, they'd just be overpriced.   But they sell a lot more than that, and no PC maker has either the brand image or the customer support Apple has.  As someone who believes Apple screwed them, and who has no need for hand holding when using the computer, I don't find these to be all that powerful, at least anymore.  But when I was shopping for my first computer a year and a half ago I did, which is exactly the point.

Quote Now, I will agree that Apple computers may be a "luxury" in the sense that you are buying something like a "status" symbol (even then that's a stretch, more like Calvin Klein Jeans Vs. Wrangler Jeans (I'm assuming that Calvin Klein is still one of those trendy brands, and that Wrangler isn't considered as such?), in the sense you're buying a brand), but there are plenty of PCs of which the same is true, many lines which are dedicated to sleek looks and aesthetics. 


Maybe this is just because of where I come from, but buying a Mercedes is no more a stretch than buying an Apple computer.  I wouldn't choose to do either in the future, but pretty much anyone who wants to spend that much money, can.  If you're going to call Mercedes a luxury car, we're stuck using the term luxury for Macs too, unless you've got a better one for both of them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2009 at 6:52pm
I have nothing against you personally Pariel but holy crap dude. Unless I'm missing something, you've used some pretty bizarre logic in this thread. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just aren't good at communicating your thoughts but I don't know.

Also, that better word you're looking for is "overrated".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 12:43am
Alright, here's my new hardware's specs:

Motherboard: Asus P5N-D
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66 GHz
RAM: 4 GB Corsair XMS2 DDR2

edit- Using the same graphics card as before (nvidia 8800 gt, 512 MB)


Edited by Benjichang - 25 December 2009 at 12:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 12:53am
I didn't really mean to start a Mac vs. PC war.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 12:53am
Regardless of WHAT the hardware is, hardware consistancy is a huge factor. Apple has control from step one of the hardware being used with their OS, and can work the two together accordingly. PC's have to deal with every random joe with a different configuration.

And aside from that, I love the way OS X works. It's right up my alley, just like the iPhone is, as I prefer that style of interaction design
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 1:02am
Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

Apple does not use better parts.  They do not have software that can do things PCs can't. They look prettier, perhaps, but beyond that the differences are mostly personal choice. 


While I'm not a fan of fanboys one way or another, and I think that both have their perks, I do prefer Apple due to the stability they offer.

Granted, this is simply anecdotal, but in my experience, the Apple computers I have used have been less
prone to things like errors, restarts, malware, etc.

I know that Windows computers can work well and be stable now too. I say that because I don't want to ignite the rabid haters of either side (Darur/Choopie).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 3:19am
Originally posted by agentwhale007 agentwhale007 wrote:

I say that because I don't want to ignite the rabid haters of either side (Darur/Choopie).

I was about to argue that I'm not really a Apple hater at all, but given my record of posting I suppose that would be on par with FE claiming hes a proud Democrat and a practicing Buddhist.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 3:48am
Originally posted by Darur Darur wrote:

A Mercedes, from my woefully limited understanding of cars, is a luxury car because it has nicer features, a more powerful engine, better handling, etc.  Clearly a Mercedes is "better" then the cars produced by, say, Ford.


This doesn't really work, because Ford doesn't let you come into the showroom, and put whatever engine you want in, with whatever alternator, spark plugs, etc. As previously stated I like Apple's hardware because they have control over the hardware from step one. The same is for cars obviously, and as I said if Ford let you put whatever components you want in it would be a bit more comparable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 4:20am
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

 
This doesn't really work, because Ford doesn't let you come into the showroom, and put whatever engine you want in, with whatever alternator, spark plugs, etc.

That has very little to do with this, but that would be something worth some consideration if, like Ford and other Auto manufacturers, the parts used were different.  I fear going further into the analogy because I don't know much about cars, but I do know that the engines and parts used by Ford are not the same parts used by Mercedes.  By contrast, PCs and Apples alike use processors from AMD or Intel, Video Cards from ATI (AMD) or NVidia, etc etc.  They have the same hardware, and both allow very similar degrees of customization.

Quote
As previously stated I like Apple's hardware because they have control over the hardware from step one. 

I can't believe I missed this one earlier.

No no no no nooooo no no no

Apple does not manufacture its systems, let alone its hardware.  It hasn't for a very long time.  Same as Dell, and HP and all the other big manufacturers. IIRC Apple contracts out to Foxconn and Inventec and they build the systems for Apple.

Now heres the kicker:  Both of these manufactures ALSO manufacture for Dell, HP and all the other major PC vendors. Same hardware.  Same people assembling it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 9:57am
So, much to my surprise, I received 4 more gigs of RAM this morning. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 1:49pm
Double post!

I just got back from picking my mother up at the airport and threw the extra ram into the two empty slots. After I booted my computer into windows 7 I checked the system properties only to find a neat little message from windows saying I had 8GB installed but could only use 3.99GB. After a quick web search I found out the P7P55D mobos are really picky when seating ram. I removed all 4 DIMMs and reseated them making sure they were as far in as possible. Problem solved, and after a reboot I now show the full 8GB.

Hey benji, how's the new hardware working?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 December 2009 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:


Hey benji, how's the new hardware working?
Sexy as hell. Still can't get over how smooth everything runs.
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