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Deputy zaps boy, 10, with Taser

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Eville View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Eville, I'll ask you again


What age IS appropriate to tase? Why are we using age as the determining factor if someone can harm you or not? At what age can a kid cause enough harm to you to make it justified? And while we're at it, at what age can an old person no longer hurt you?    


You can't assign an arbitrary age to that, it will always be dependent on the situation.  This situation, given the likely size of the kid, I don't think it was necessary.  Given the potential harm that could have resulted, the taser should not have been used. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IrIsHGunNeR37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 1:59pm
weight is related to height and body composition, rather than age................granted they have a standard height and weight for all age brackets but these standard heights and weights can vary within the age brackets. Still even if he was average or below average it still dosen't rule out the possibility of a small kid doing so serious damage to a knee or fingers with any kind of material. Lets just say that it was pvc and not metal. PVC can be swung very easily because it is not a heavy material but the damage can be just as effective because it can be swung at a faster rate due to its weight.
 
Plus the kid had already begun assaulting the officer after he threw a landscape timber at him
"Mondragon said the boy had threatened Biby with a pipe and a stick, and had thrown a landscape timber at Biby"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:01pm
So it would have been better for the officer to have closed in, possibly sustaining injury from the kid, and then attempt to physically remove the pipe, possibly involving striking the kid?

Generally speaking, a police officer will always maintain standoff distance from a person with a weapon such as this. If the person has a close range weapon, the cop should never move within that range. This risks the cop becoming incapacitated. What if the kid managed to clock him in the head on the way in? Suddenly there's a KOed cop at the kid's feet, with pepper spray, a taser and a gun on his belt. Think of how this could have escalated the situation.

Further, if the cop closed with the kid and was struck, or even if the kid attempted to strike, all of a sudden now the kid has assaulted an officer, which is MUCH more seirous than anything else he's already done.

Based on the limited info we had at hand, and based on the training cops receive and the sound judgement most show, I don't think this was inappropriate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by IrIsHGunNeR37 IrIsHGunNeR37 wrote:

weight is related to height and body composition, rather than age................granted they have a standard height and weight for all age brackets but these standard heights and weights can vary within the age brackets. Still even if he was average or below average it still dosen't rule out the possibility of a small kid doing so serious damage to a knee or fingers with any kind of material. Lets just say that it was pvc and not metal. PVC can be swung very easily because it is not a heavy material but the damage can be just as effective because it can be swung at a faster rate due to its weight.
 
Plus the kid had already begun assaulting the officer after he threw a landscape timber at him
"Mondragon said the boy had threatened Biby with a pipe and a stick, and had thrown a landscape timber at Biby"

Biby was the foster father, not the cop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IrIsHGunNeR37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Originally posted by IrIsHGunNeR37 IrIsHGunNeR37 wrote:


Biby was the foster father, not the cop.
]
Ooops that was a misread on my part. Either way I agree with the cop you have to weigh out all possible scenarios and options and go with what you feel is best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:31pm
Well this one is far different than the last one.

I don't know what Eville is going on about, but yeah. If it was the same situation I would be against the cop. Controlling a 10 year old isn't that hard.

"had threatened Biby with a pipe and a stick, and had thrown a landscape timber at Biby." This line changes it entirely from the 10 year old girl. The only question I would have is if it was a "BAM TASE!" or he took it out and warned him. Not that it matters all that much, but most videos I have seen of taser use there is never a warning. I would hope there would be one for a 10 year old, pipe or not.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:35pm
Have these idiots never had, been around, or been children? I've worked at a summer camp 3 times and feel like I understand more than those tards on duty. It's a 10 year old, if you can't handle it, hand in your badge you failure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:39pm
Choop, I wish I could show you the damage I have done when I was 10 years old. I came very close to seriously injuring people. Gladly I never got the cops called on me or I would probably be locked up and on forced behavior medication.

Summer camp=/=10 year old with psychological problems wielding a pipe(PVC or not).
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:40pm
I'm not saying that maybe there wasn't a better way to handle it or not, because I don't feel like getting into it.; BUT, you're crazy if you think you could get a pipe(PVC OR metal) out of someone's hands when they're pissed and cornered.  someone swinging a pipe can do real damage, and if a calm ten year old can hit a home run, they can sure do some real damage to you too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Choop, I wish I could show you the damage I have done when I was 10 years old. I came very close to seriously injuring people. Gladly I never got the cops called on me or I would probably be locked up and on forced behavior medication.Summer camp=/=10 year old with psychological problems wielding a pipe(PVC or not).


Good for you, and 10 year old boys. I still say that a grown, TRAINED officer should be able to handle it. What did they do before tazers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by choopie911 choopie911 wrote:

Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:

Choop, I wish I could show you the damage I have done when I was 10 years old. I came very close to seriously injuring people. Gladly I never got the cops called on me or I would probably be locked up and on forced behavior medication.Summer camp=/=10 year old with psychological problems wielding a pipe(PVC or not).


Good for you, and 10 year old boys. I still say that a grown, TRAINED officer should be able to handle it. What did they do before tazers?


It doesn't matter. They probably could handle it. No one said they couldn't handle the kid if they wanted to. It doesn't change he was carrying a pipe, injury was possible, that is the purpose of a taser.
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 3:08pm
It's also a 10 year old boy. Crappy cop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Wikipedia Wikipedia wrote:


Taser International asserts that the Taser is safe for use on anyone weighing 60 pounds (27 kg) or more.

Kid weighed how much?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 3:18pm
Given the weapon and the history, it's a much tougher call.

For that reason, I suggest a different method of apprehension.



Cheaper, more uses than one, the weights can be padded, and it takes the legs out of the equation.


Edited by Tolgak - 05 December 2009 at 3:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TinMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 3:34pm
When spanking is not allowed, you can always rely on your Taser.
 
More so than the 10 year old girl before this, he attempted to harm Biby,
and had what 'could' have been, and in most cases 'would' have been, considered a weapon.
He refused to drop it. Open and shut, reguardless of him being 10.


Edited by TinMan - 05 December 2009 at 3:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheWrAith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 4:30pm
 I say the Officer should have used his Pepper Spray instead.. the taser was meant for Adults, to take down a 170+ pound person, not a 110 pound kid, the long term and life threatening effects on  a child are much more likely, pepper spray has no long term effects and would have ended the situation all the same.

Edited by TheWrAith - 05 December 2009 at 4:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Koolit32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 4:44pm
It's a taser. He didn't shoot him in the face. The kid didn't end up in the hospital or anything.
The argument here seems to be like should he or shouldn't he have tased him.
I say he should've brought out the night stick and leveled the playing field.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote usafpilot07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 4:58pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

Originally posted by Wikipedia Wikipedia wrote:


Taser International asserts that the Taser is safe for use on anyone weighing 60 pounds (27 kg) or more.

Kid weighed how much?

How many ten year old boys weigh less than sixty pounds?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 December 2009 at 4:59pm
LOL Koolit, I got a great mental image from that.

Before Tasers, the officer would have done exactly what is suggested above -- night stick or pepper spray.

I personally agree with Bri.  The kid had a weapon, and that ups the ante.  If he had just been a 10-year old throwing a hissy fit again, it would be different.  But he was in a position where he could do damage.  The cop was totally justified in not getting near him, and taking him down with the Taser.
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