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Dilemma

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Tolgak View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:30pm
This semester, I got involved in a music group on campus which was created in hopes of growing into a decent sized orchestra. I will refer to the group as an orchestra for the purposes of this thread.

We were invited to play for two Christmas concerts, the first of which has passed.

Turns out, tonight is not a concert, but a mass. Praying, praising Jebus, and all the other rituals that I don't care for. I was told by the man running the affair that it would not be so when I first raised my concern at the first rehearsal for this. So now I have a problem. I've been duped into rehearsing for a ceremony that I  participating in and am receiving no compensation for. I am the lead of 3 trumpet players, and the only one that reliably makes it to performances and rehearsals.

Do I inform the members of the orchestra that I wish no part in the ceremony, and look like an ass for not participating?

or

Do I sit through two hours of drivel and support a cause and an audience that works to oppose people who share my ideals?


Edited by Tolgak - 03 December 2009 at 1:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:39pm
I'd just suck it up and play the gig. You'll gain experience playing with this group at an event and also have an audience to spread the word about you guys and how well you play. I think you're letting down your friends if you skip it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:44pm
You made a commitment. You are only as good as your word.

Nice tolerance btw...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:46pm
Play the concert. Your going there as an invited musical guest, not as a brainwashed participant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:


Nice tolerance btw...


Pot calling the kettle black.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:48pm
I would not play it. It isn't something you want to do. 
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

You made a commitment. You are only as good as your word.

Nice tolerance btw...


Difference between tolerance and not wanting to hang around and listen to mass...
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

You made a commitment. You are only as good as your word.

Nice tolerance btw...


I made a commitment to concerts, not religious affairs. I made it clear in the beginning that I do not wish to play for any sort of rituals, that I wish to play music only for the sake of music and entertainment. Most of the group agrees and has accepted that idea. We were not told that the event would be a mass, we were told it would be a concert. We were lied to, and the news only came out this morning.

As far as tolerance goes, I don't have to tolerate rituals or beliefs. That doesn't mean I can't tolerate those people when they aren't dragging me into those sorts of things.


Edited by Tolgak - 03 December 2009 at 1:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Evil Elvis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 2:05pm
show up as an orchestra in some cool Traditional Turkish garb, and see how long it takes them to freak out as all your trumpet cases have clocks and wires attached to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 2:09pm
A gig is a gig, Tolga. Play this one and hopefully you guys will get more in the future. Also, have some good laughs while you're playing the mass.
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Tolgak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

A gig is a gig, Tolga. Play this one and hopefully you guys will get more in the future. Also, have some good laughs while you're playing the mass.


Yea, the plan has always been to go. I'm just wondering what other people think about it. The people around me share my sentiments, so it could be a good time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 2:18pm
Improvise a solo as a gift to baby jesus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gatyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 3:27pm
Play the imperial death march when that pastor/priest/holy guy first walks on the stage. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Gatyr Gatyr wrote:

Play the imperial death march when that pastor/priest/holy guy first walks on the stage. 


Win.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickman98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 3:55pm
so if its agaisnt what you believe in and you were lied to about it how do you even begin to feel like you have to go. this is as clear as it gets to me. dont go and just tell them you dont appreciate being lied to, and good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

As far as tolerance goes, I don't have to tolerate rituals or beliefs. That doesn't mean I can't tolerate those people when they aren't dragging me into those sorts of things.
 
 
Tolerance
 
1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
2. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own.
3. interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one's own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint.
 
Freedom from Bigotry...
 
Hmm, what is bigotry?...
 
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.
 
Good thread, made me laugh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 4:13pm
Originally posted by nickman98 nickman98 wrote:

so if its agaisnt what you believe in and you were lied to about it how do you even begin to feel like you have to go. this is as clear as it gets to me. dont go and just tell them you dont appreciate being lied to, and good luck.


This was my initial idea, but it wasn't the group that lied to me, it was the people that asked us to come. As a new group on campus, it would look horrible for a player with important parts to abandon a rehearsal. The population of my school is as religious as it gets for non-religious institutions.

To the student population, it wouldn't matter that the organizer lied. I would have skipped out on a church ritual. A Christmas one. That paints me as hellspawn and the group in a very negative light if the organizer decides to get vocal about it (judging by how much of an ass he is at rehearsal, it's very likely).

I can't afford to build a bad reputation for myself on religious grounds when the goal is to be a pilot. The population of the industry is too conservative and religious.

The best I can do is to ensure that we never let this happen again. If we are to be called for a religious ritual, we should be told in advance of the nature of the ritual so that people who don't want to participate can opt out before it is too late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yomillio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 4:27pm
Dude, if you wanna play, go play and enjoy yourself.  Who cares about the setting, you'll still have a good time playing.

I get that you wouldn't do it had you known about it, and thats fine.  I say just go for it.

I just think this isn't the time to make some sort of stand, nevermind the fact that you'll end up having a good time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by FreeEnterprise FreeEnterprise wrote:

Originally posted by Tolgak Tolgak wrote:

As far as tolerance goes, I don't have to tolerate rituals or beliefs. That doesn't mean I can't tolerate those people when they aren't dragging me into those sorts of things.
 
 
Tolerance
 
1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
3. interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one's own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint.
 
Freedom from Bigotry...
 
Hmm, what is bigotry?...
 
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.
2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot.
 
Good thread, made me laugh.


Fair: My belief is certainly fair. I don't believe in the validity of the ritual, so it is fair for me to call it nonsense.
Objective: Not much to say here. I studied Christianity soon after dropping Islam. I was a free soul looking for religion to cling to. I determined that I could not agree with the writings.
Permissive: I'm certainly not advocating for the ritual to be stopped. I just don't want it forced upon me.

I TRY to be ethical. They lied to put me in this position. My commitment to the group is being used to keep me at the ritual.

That 3rd definition doesn't have much of a place here. By that definition, nobody is tolerant nor do they always try to be. You likely have no interest sitting through Friday prayers at a mosque. Definitely not for multiple services. That definition demands that a tolerant person be active and have interest in other ideologies.

You rode BMX. If you had a crew that was hired to provide some entertainment in a parade, and was told the day of the performance that you were working for a gay pride parade, would you still perform? Your history of posts on this forum makes that answer a highly likely "no." Your justifications for not going would firmly place you under the definition of bigot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tolgak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2009 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Yomillio Yomillio wrote:

Dude, if you wanna play, go play and enjoy yourself.  Who cares about the setting, you'll still have a good time playing.

I get that you wouldn't do it had you known about it, and thats fine.  I say just go for it.

I just think this isn't the time to make some sort of stand, nevermind the fact that you'll end up having a good time.


Actually, I don't enjoy playing this music. It's boring and simple and not at all challenging (except Hallelujah, I quite like that one). I'll have a good time if I can manage to keep up a conversation with the group around me, but there are no guarantees.

As I said earlier in this thread, I'm going. The only reason is to support the orchestra. That is all.
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