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Obama issues new Afghanistan military orders

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    Posted: 30 November 2009 at 4:35pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8387065.stm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 4:36pm
This is a clear sign of weakness
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FreeEnterprise Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 4:38pm
I don't see this ending well...
 
 
It looks like our generations version of Vietnam.
 
I wish he just pulled out of the area now, there is no way we can "fix" the problems over there that have been going on for thousands of years.
 
All we are doing is wasting money we don't have and sacrificing our soldiers... and for what?...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallen702 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 5:11pm
FE Pre Obama: Kill all them ragheads! Turn it into a glass parking-lot!

FE Post Obama: We should pull out, there's no good solution to this problem.

That said, I think that Afghanistan is a very very important issue right now. We shouldn't just "call it quits" as FE is suggesting. The only reason we are mired there right now is due to the fact that someone *cough* W *cough* committed our forces to two separate conflicts at the same time. If troop levels had been higher from the get-go, and we had worked with Pakistan pre-invasion to allow our troops to push up from the south while simultaneously pushing in from the north-west, then we wouldn't be in the situation we are now. The whole thing was poorly planned from the beginning and we didn't learn our lessons from the Soviets.

To make matters worse, Abdullah Abdullah clearly wasn't interested in the welfare of his country by refusing to enter a run-off election after he claimed fraud was committed by Karzai. Had he done so and won, or even lost, it would have lent much more legitimacy to the NATO presence in the country. As it stands, we have a corrupt leader as an ally, and that never works out well.

One promising sign is that the aforementioned elections were, on a whole, peaceful. Something that we don't see much of in war-torn countries. This is a sign of progress that I don't think many really look at with open eyes. Had the Taliban made good on their threats of harm and reprisal against those who voted in the elections, we'd have far more to worry about.

What is needed is a good old fashioned pincer attack on the southern border. Pakistan's step-up against militants in their country's northern provinces is a boon to our efforts to stabilize that area of the world, and I think that over the next 5-8 years, we can do the job we went there to do so long as we keep up a good troop presence and do our very best to stay out of government affairs.

Edited by tallen702 - 30 November 2009 at 5:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote __sneaky__ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

FE Pre Obama: Kill all them ragheads! Turn it into a glass parking-lot!

FE Post Obama: We should pull out, there's no good solution to this problem.

LOL QFT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ammolord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by __sneaky__ __sneaky__ wrote:

Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

FE Pre Obama: Kill all them ragheads! Turn it into a glass parking-lot!

FE Post Obama: We should pull out, there's no good solution to this problem.

LOL QFT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 5:36pm
I think it's a very good thing that we can now look at the government in Afghanistan and say "We need to fix corruption".  That in itself says a lot about where we've come.

I'm glad Obama did not choose the lower options -- frankly, I think 30,000 is still low, either at or below the minimum we need to actually finish this fight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by tallen702 tallen702 wrote:

FE Pre Obama: Kill all them ragheads! Turn it into a glass parking-lot!

FE Post Obama: We should pull out, there's no good solution to this problem.

I don't like the guy, but he's only been here since October 08. I can't recall him weighing in on anything substantial about Afghanistan in that time, other than some recent posts rightfully taking Obama to task for dithering this long on the subject.

The situation in Afghanistan also remains very fluid, and things change rapidly. Obama's been in office for less than a year, but in that time we've seen a MASSIVE new commitment of troops to the south (much of it planned and ordered under Bush), a presidential election that managed to severely damage the credibility of the democratic process, yet perplexingly occurred without much violence- and yet I remember when I was there they were regularly offing election workers and voter registration people who were setting thr groundwork for the election. We've seen a massive offensive start in Pakistan. We've seen many dozens more coalition troops die, and we've seen Helmand province get significantly more violent. Kandahar province now has many times the number of troops. The Afghan Army's coming along; the police are still junk. We've seen the German defense minister resign over an airstrike that killed a number of civilians.

Nothing is black and white, and for every three steps forwards there's two steps back - if not, at times, the other way round. FE's only asking questions that many people are asking- ones I've asked myself and can't come up with as complete an answer as I like.

I'm more optimistic than FE is, but on the other hand, he raises a good point- IF failure is accepted as inevitable, it's far more justifiable to abruptly and completely withdraw than to continue fighting a losing battle.

I think Obama's strategy of focusing heavily on training the ANA and ANP is the correct one, and ultimately will be our exit strategy. I just hope we can still pull it off after the hash Bush made of the situation by diverting troops to Iraq.

I think we can still ultimately achieve strategic success, but I may be wrong. One way or another, we need to either do the job properly, or completely get out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agentwhale007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 7:18pm
My addition to this conversation:

A secured Pakistan has to occur before a secured Afghanistan can take place.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IrIsHGunNeR37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 9:54pm
Fact of the matter is..........the middle east tends to be like the wild west of the world. Granted they all have their own countries and forms of government set up but they still have their extremist factions that create the problems and do not fully agree with everything that is done regarding tradition. Two of the last times the middleeast had any sort of unity was during the crusades. In some cases certain groups were still pitted against one another. The other time was when the Ottoman Empire was still in power. Ever since then it has kind of become a mess within itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 10:00pm
Why don't we move most of our troops that are in Iraq to Afghanistan if we are basically done there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IrIsHGunNeR37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Rofl_Mao Rofl_Mao wrote:

Why don't we move most of our troops that are in Iraq to Afghanistan if we are basically done there?
I think they are still in the transitional phase of turning things over to the Iraqi's. I am not overly positive because I haven't been really reading up on it to much lately. So I may very well be dead wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 10:20pm
Small point, but Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East. It's Southwest Asia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 10:29pm
Originally posted by brihard brihard wrote:

Small point, but Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East. It's Southwest Asia.


Its a lot closer than the U.S. is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotchyscotch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 10:33pm
So am I. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rofl_Mao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 10:35pm
k. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse!! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2009 at 11:12pm
So are we actually still looking for Bin Laden? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2009 at 9:46am
The Senate just published a report about how we shouldn't have missed him in Tora Bora in 2001.

Also, the Middle East isn't the Wild West of the world, sub-Saharan Africa is.  The Middle East has gubments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2009 at 9:51am
Originally posted by ParielIsBack ParielIsBack wrote:

The Senate just published a report about how we shouldn't have missed him in Tora Bora in 2001.

Also, the Middle East isn't the Wild West of the world, sub-Saharan Africa is.  The Middle East has gubments.

Link plox. I think I'll get a kick out of reading that report.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2009 at 9:56am
http://foreign.senate.gov/
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