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Four police ambushed, murdered in WA

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snipa69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 2:44am
Valuable? No. But these 4 officers took an oath that "4 other dudes" did not take to uphold the law and keep the public safe from people like the one who killed them. I'm not sure anyone here claims that "value" was of importance, but perhaps it is more publicized than that of 4 random people off of the street. Next thing you know, you'll be asking why it's so important to hear about our troops that get killed...

But read the article folks. The officer didn't shoot him just because he was suspected of killing the 4 officers, he shot him because he was making threatening movements towards the officer. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse!! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 4:47am
Originally posted by Tical3.0 Tical3.0 wrote:

187


on a motha .... cop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kayback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 6:31am
Besides the fact that they are putting their lives on the line to protect the "4 random dudes", they are also a symbol of authority and a symbol of the law. Killing them IS more than killing random people's it is directly attacking the state.

Cops should, in my opinion, have the knowledge that if something does happens to them the ultimate punishment will be levied on the badguys.

I don't know what the law in the States says but in SA if you are on parole or whatever and you commit another crime you get thrown back in jail for your orginal sentence and await trial for your next trial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Kayback Kayback wrote:

Besides the fact that they are putting their lives on the line to protect the "4 random dudes", they are also a symbol of authority and a symbol of the law. Killing them IS more than killing random people's it is directly attacking the state.


It would be hard to argue that this guy was attacking "the state".  There's an implied political purpose there which he didn't have -- seeing how he said he was "going to kill some cops and watch the news".

Quote Cops should, in my opinion, have the knowledge that if something does happens to them the ultimate punishment will be levied on the badguys.


A) This is perhaps biased, since you are one.

B) Don't most people want this?  Cops just have it because they have the power to actually take revenge for fallen officers.  I'm not saying that's how this case turned out, but again, cop killers rarely make it to trial.

Quote I don't know what the law in the States says but in SA if you are on parole or whatever and you commit another crime you get thrown back in jail for your orginal sentence and await trial for your next trial.


I'm pretty sure that is how it works.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 10:56am
"B) Don't most people want this?  Cops just have it because they have the power to actually take revenge for fallen officers.  I'm not saying that's how this case turned out, but again, cop killers rarely make it to trial."


In many / most states, it's a felony to assault a cop, firefighter, or EMS personnel, punishible by much more time in prison than assaulting a random civilian.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


In many / most states, it's a felony to assault a cop, firefighter, or EMS personnel, punishible by much more time in prison than assaulting a random civilian.   

Another reason people will walk around with a holier than thou attitude. A life is a life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 12:23pm
Tolls is tolls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


In many / most states, it's a felony to assault a cop, firefighter, or EMS personnel, punishible by much more time in prison than assaulting a random civilian.   
Another reason people will walk around with a holier than thou attitude. A life is a life.


If you honestly believe a life is a life, and all lives are equal, you're wrong. A life of a person who vows to protect innocent people is NOT equal to a life spent terrorizing people, and murdering 4 in cold blood.

Mixon's life was not equal to Sergeant Sakai's or Sergeant Romans life. (Oakland shooting).   Maurice Clemmons life was not worth the paper his birth certificate was printed on. And if what they are saying about Clemmons 6 accomplices turns out to be true, hopefully they get what they deserve as well.



So no, a life is not a life. Lives are not equal. You make choices in your life, and those choices determine your worth. If your life is centered around causing harm to innocent people, then your life is worthless, good riddance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 2:44pm
While I agree to some extent with your viewpoint, I believe you're taking HV's point the wrong way.

First and foremost, the laws that make assaulting emergency personnel a more serious offense than regular old assault are to enable them to complete their job more effectively.

Second, I don't think HV (although perhaps he does in fact mean this) is saying that a cop killer and a cop have equally valuable lives.  He's saying that a cop and your average not cop killer are both just people.  We can't afford as a society to say that police are some sort of special, flawless human specimens.  Cops who think that generally end up doing things that put them in jail.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmac3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


In many / most states, it's a felony to assault a cop, firefighter, or EMS personnel, punishible by much more time in prison than assaulting a random civilian.   
Another reason people will walk around with a holier than thou attitude. A life is a life.


If you honestly believe a life is a life, and all lives are equal, you're wrong.


So no, a life is not a life. Lives are not equal.


HAHAHAHAHA


I'll agree a cop is not equal to a murderer but you best not believe that is true about any normal person to a cop or EMT
Que pasa?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by jmac3 jmac3 wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:


Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:


In many / most states, it's a felony to assault a cop, firefighter, or EMS personnel, punishible by much more time in prison than assaulting a random civilian.   
Another reason people will walk around with a holier than thou attitude. A life is a life.


If you honestly believe a life is a life, and all lives are equal, you're wrong.

So no, a life is not a life. Lives are not equal.
HAHAHAHAHAI'll agree a cop is not equal to a murderer but you best not believe that is true about any normal person to a cop or EMT



Never said cops / EMS personnel / firefighters were better then your every-day average citizen, did I? Because we ARE the average everyday normal citizen.   We just have flashy lights on our vehicles.

Edited by Linus - 02 December 2009 at 3:47pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 3:58pm
I think professional athletes are more important than everyone except doctors.

Edited by Frozen Balls - 02 December 2009 at 3:59pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Uncle Rudder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

A life is a life.
 
 
 
Truth.  They're all equal and to say that they aren't is ridiculous. If that's th case I think Hannah Montana's life is more valuable than a cops, and a doctor's life is more valuable than the Presidents.  Oh and crack dealers have a life that is more valuable than lawyers. 
 
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ParielIsBack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 7:50pm
I would like to point out that that last statement might be true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Benjichang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by Uncle Rudder Uncle Rudder wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

A life is a life.
 
 
 
Truth.  They're all equal and to say that they aren't is ridiculous. If that's th case I think Hannah Montana's life is more valuable than a cops, and a doctor's life is more valuable than the Presidents.  Oh and crack dealers have a life that is more valuable than lawyers. 
 
LOL
Exactly. It isn't possible for anyone to assess the value of the life of another person. To suggest that we somehow can is ridiculous. What are the criteria? There are too many facets of a person to make a judgement like that.


Edited by Benjichang - 02 December 2009 at 7:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 8:03pm
I don't think any one human life is inherently more valuable than another one. That said, there are other principles that go into criminal sentencing, including general and specific deterrence, denunciation of certain offences, and segregating an offender form society due to the level of risk he or she presents. Someone who deliberately murders emergency services is probably of a greater level of risk to society at large, and I think it's appropriate that there are consequently harsher sentences on average for these individuals.

That said, there are a lot of changes that need to be made in sentencing; more lenient in some cases, significantly harsher in others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:




Originally posted by Uncle Rudder Uncle Rudder wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

A life is a life.

 

 

 

Truth.  They're all equal and to say that they aren't is ridiculous. If that's th case I think Hannah Montana's life is more valuable than a cops, and a doctor's life is more valuable than the Presidents.  Oh and crack dealers have a life that is more valuable than lawyers. 

 

LOL
Exactly. It isn't possible for anyone to assess the value of the life of another person. To suggest that we somehow can is ridiculous. What are the criteria? There are too many facets of a person to make a judgement like that.



Sure ya can! As I stated, a violent criminal who kills innocent people HAS no life worth anything. Period. And to think they are equal in worth to those who protect innocent people is laughable.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote High Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 11:03pm
Way to prove my point, Linus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Uncle Rudder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 11:11pm
Originally posted by Linus Linus wrote:

Originally posted by Benjichang Benjichang wrote:




Originally posted by Uncle Rudder Uncle Rudder wrote:

Originally posted by High Voltage High Voltage wrote:

A life is a life.

 

 

 

Truth.  They're all equal and to say that they aren't is ridiculous. If that's th case I think Hannah Montana's life is more valuable than a cops, and a doctor's life is more valuable than the Presidents.  Oh and crack dealers have a life that is more valuable than lawyers. 

 

LOL
Exactly. It isn't possible for anyone to assess the value of the life of another person. To suggest that we somehow can is ridiculous. What are the criteria? There are too many facets of a person to make a judgement like that.



Sure ya can! As I stated, a violent criminal who kills innocent people HAS no life worth anything. Period. And to think they are equal in worth to those who protect innocent people is laughable.
 
So this person go from human to non-human?  What form of non-human does this guy take?  Dog? Statue?  Action-figure?
 
Get off your thorne for a few minutes every now and then, you don't wanna get sores.  I don't give a dead moose's last poo if your a cop or if your a crackhead, your no more or less human and your life is no more or less valuable/worth. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Linus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2009 at 11:37pm
No, Uncle, you're missing the ball entirely. I never said criminals aren't human, or criminal lifes aren't lifes. I said violent criminals who have made the conscious decision to murder people for no other reason but their enjoyment should NEVER be considered anyone elses equal. Two totally separate scenarios you're mixing up.

If there were 2 people who's lives were in danger and you can only save one, one a normal everyday person, the other a felon convicted of 4 counts of 1st degree murder, no doubt in anyones mind, you can not honestly tell me you would put both on the same equal playing field. Their lifes are NOT equal. Maybe they were when they were younger, but the moment the murder decided to take someones life for their enjoyment, their equal card got thrown in the trash.



Osamas life is not equal to yours. Al Zaeqawis life was not equal to HV. Mixon's life is not equal to Rebs newborn kid. Sorry, I'll never believe otherwise.


And before someone plays the card I know they will and brings it up, yes, my job IS to save lives, and I never said I'd treat a known murderer any differently if they were my patient. I just don't have to view them as my equal.

Edited by Linus - 02 December 2009 at 11:45pm

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